Subliminal messaging in the church movie “On the way home” – [10:56]


 

If you listen carefully, the bikers chant, “Don’t do drugs,” 3 times as they go past (7:45).

Also, during the sister missionary discussion, there are inexplicable bubbles blowing through the room.  Really, you need to get the video from the church’s library and view it to really see it.

I want to know who at the CoB authorized the use of subliminal messaging when making this movie, and what the rationale was.  “Maybe it works and mind controlling investigators isn’t so bad!”

 

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Boyd K. Packer’s Seminary video – Mercy Cannot Rob Justice, a breakdown


 

Basic Premise

A man in very Jerusalem BC attire buys a house via debt. He does not pay up and the creditor comes to claim the house and send the man to debtors’ prison. The man’s friend comes to bail him out. The man then owes the friend the debt under new terms. This is an allegory of our relationship with Christ.

Part 1: “There is a spiritual account with a balance kept.”

Where? Wait, what? Okay so we are born. Does that put us into debt? Or are we talking sin? What removes items from the ledger and adds things to it?

He says we’ll settle that account. Well, can I get an account balance, please? How about an additional line of credit (another soul?)? Okay, it’s a metaphor, but right off the bat, God is a banker… not the most flattering of roles.

0:24 – Kid stealing cucumbers gets away with it.

0:27 – Our hero enters, what a white Jew. Wait, he’s drinking the water from the Wow.. what a white Jesus (0:50). I am THOR-JESUS. Okay, so is he a church member, then? Do we start our debt/balance account after we drink living water, or did they just put that in for fun?

1:00 – Weighing on the scales: See that rock hit the ground? Boy, that sets the tone doesn’t it? How Boyd K. Packer sees humans. Hopelessly out of balance. Heavily pounded into debt.

Part 2: The ETERNAL law of Justice.

Okay so we talk a lot about how unjust this world is. Is the ETERNAL law of justice suspended for this life? For the 6 billion years of the Earth’s existence?

I mean, maybe there is an eternal law of justice somewhere, but everything we are given to see is unjust. In fact, one could even point out that justice only exists when mankind is involved. Wolves and rabbits care nothing for justice.

01:26 – “There once was a man who wanted something very much.”

Okay so is this earth-life we’re talking about? Because the alternative there wasn’t really justice. Ya know? It was either eternal damnation or doing it God’s way. Being forced at gun-point isn’t exactly agency.

Or is it sin? Because if sin is the metaphor here, I’m just going to point out that the friend (Christ) allows our hero (ourselves) to keep the something our hero wanted very much (sin).

That seems a bad metaphor.

What exactly is it that we did to incur this debt? That is never addressed. And this is the marvel of the church. We each write our own sins in, assuming that we went into debt for them, and those sins might not even be sins.

Masturbation? Well, that wasn’t a “sin” until 1956 and still is more of a policy. Fornication? Is that what gets us into debt? Beer, that was once good, but we can feel guilty for all of it because of the wording.

01:43 – And who is the hard-assed creditor? Sure seems like it MUST be God, unless there is an arbitrary “ETERNAL LAW OF JUSTICE” that holds God accountable as well. But mercy is personified in the friend who is clearly made out to be Christ, so why not assume that the white/grey-bearded creditor is also a person?

Is it Satan? Hardly. Satan has nothing to give/offer, nor does he “demand justice.” So it must be God. Really, metaphors that make God into Jewish bankers might not be the best idea.

01:44 – “He was warned about his creditor.” Wait, who warned him about God? Or is this sin? Can Satan make loans? And Christ lets us keep our sins after? Awesome.

“He wanted what he wanted right now… he was sure he could pay for it later.”

Okay, so this is not about wanting wrong things. We get into “spiritual debt” by wanting things too soon. Like being too eager to go on a mission… er, what?

Wait, he SIGNS HIS NAME? When did you sign your name to a spiritual contract?

Again, the living water came first, and then he signs a covenant. Sounds like the “spiritual debt” is created by joining the church.

Part 3: He buys the house.

Well, if spiritual debt is sin, then he sinned for a very reasonable investment of a place to live that could help him grow, although it’s kinda a fixer-upper.

If spiritual debt is created by simply being born, then he didn’t have much choice, did he? What kind of justice is that?

02:31 – If spiritual debt is created by joining the church… did he just sell his tokens and signs for money?! Or wait, he gave money for a token and sign… bah I have no idea.

02:37 – Random act of violence against a chicken.

03:15 – “COME WITH US!”

Ah yes, don’t you dare stop toiling for a minute. I mean, having some FUN with your possessions. Just evil.

Maybe spiritual debt is incurred by having fun instead of doing church duties?

03:46 – Token payments

Here again, exchanging money for tokens… er…. giving money as tokens. Ah well, skip the pun. The point is, how do we make payments on spiritual debt? Is it by good works? Is it by going to church? Paying tithing? Hmmm… possibly, but again the brilliance of letting everyone who watches this take all their good they are doing, and showing it as a small bag and saying “it’s never enough”…

And what kind of creditor doesn’t have regular installments to be paid? Is the kid not aware of how much he SHOULD be paying in each installment? That’s not justice. Perfect justice would tell him what was expected.

04:21 – Part 4: “I cannot pay you.”

Okay, so what would justice do in this case? Does it throw people in prison? Or does it TAKE THE HOUSE that was the collateral on the mortgage?

You see how devious this is? It implies that “debtors’ prisons” are absolutely just, (probably due to the line in the Book of Mormon that says one cannot pay the utmost senine in prison). Are they just?

Does the creditor get his money by throwing people in prison? No.

Can the person pay while in prison? No.

That’s why our laws seize the collateral on the loan or garnish future wages. Why is God so unclear on justice when mere humans can figure it out?

“You signed the contract.”

Again, if this is an allegory for life, which contract did we sign?

If born = contract signed, then this implies original sin. And what kind of just Being creates his children already hopelessly in debt?!

Sin? Then when did we sign a contract? I know that many people masturbate without even knowing what it is (infants do it in the womb) so where is the contract that is well defined?

Joining the church… well there was a covenant and contract, but we were 8 years old! Indoctrinated! Peer pressure! Where is the justice in that?

04:53 – “Mercy is always so one sided.”

Wait, if he extended the time, he’d be paid… if he throws the man in jail he never gets paid. How is Justice any less one sided? It sure sounds like Justice is being played by Vengeance or Retribution in this scene.

Also… note the purple turban on Justice’s head. Purple is a royal color, again illustrating this is probably God who is just pissy about deadlines and payments and that the contract is with God.

05:28 – “You agreed to it, and that is the way it must be.”

Again, this presupposes that we signed a contract at some point. Any and all contract signers for sin… yeah, I thought not.

Now, at this point we suddenly shift. The debtor is declared to be “Mercy.” I’m not sure if the implication should be that mercy is always indebted to justice… or just that we, as people, demand mercy. Christ becomes the personification of Mercy later… but in this scene, the indebted person is STATED to be the law of mercy.

06:07 – Check out the shirtless Nephite guards in old-timey Jerusalem. It’s like they said to the props guy, “Give us anything that looks old, it doesn’t matter.” Obsidian spears… sure, why not.

06:19 – Chained and manacled. Dude, he’s a debtor, not a murderer. Talk about unjust laws. Oh wait, that’s the whole point. Perfect justice my ass.

06:47 – SHADOW JESUS is here to save you!

“He knew him to be short sighted.” – Oh… burn, you short sighted mortal. You wreckless fool. You signed a contract for… well we don’t know, and got spiritual capital that you foolishly spent on a house that you needed, and then made payments somehow to God but didn’t count on dying did you? So pathetic. Why would he even waste his perfect mercy on you? Cower, mortal.

I will pay the debt, if you will free the debtor of his contract.

Remember, we’re talking about Romans nailing this guy to a cross in the next scene. We’re talking about justification for human, if not deity, sacrifice.

How does human sacrifice pay a spiritual debt? Well that’s just more God mysteriousness, isn’t it?

Murder someone and Jesus can pay for it by dying. Spirit magic.

It’s like if you got really in debt on your visa credit card and then your next door neighbor threw himself under a bus and your card was suddenly paid for. Perfect justice AND mercy.

07:20 – “Keep his possessions.” We get to keep our sins! W00t.

“I will set the terms.” Yeah, you don’t pay me, and OUTER DARKNESS prison for you, bitch.

08:30 – Scared chicken runs from Justice-God person.

08:46 – Homoerotic gazing as one man rubs another man’s body parts with Boyd K. Packer voiceover.

08:55- Summary.

10:00- Reuse of stock footage for Thor-Jesus to stand noble with music behind him.

TL;DR: We, naughty humans, signed a contract with God for something, and because we did that foolish thing, we need Jesus to die. Justice is really not very just. It’s overbearing. Now feel bad.

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Joseph Smith and the Rational God part 6 – Retrieving the Plates

Accordingly, as I had been commanded, I went at the end of each year, and at each time I found the same messenger there except the second year when I brought Samuel Lawrence, a man of magic to the hill, and the messenger did not appear, and received instruction and intelligence from him at each of our interviews, respecting what the Lord was going to do, and how and in what manner his kingdom was to be conducted in the last days.

For example, He explained His gospel to me, and that Baptism was required. He informed me at this time, and I have written it down so that I would not forget, or rather, I caused it to be written, that John the Baptist would appear to me when the time came for baptism, and that I should know him by the tokens and signs given to me to know a true messenger.

Further, he told me other visitors would come, including Peter, James and John, that I should expect them, but that they should come later, and John the Baptist would be first.

He also instructed me that his Kingdom would contain twelve apostles, as it did of old, and a prophet at the head with two counselors. There would be a quorum of seventy who were sent to preach to all corners of the earth.

Now at this time I was shocked that we would ever have seventy members in an organization, not withstanding the idea of seventy merely to preach.

And I did inquire of the messenger, “How shall this be seeing that I am a boy and I don’t even have the book?”

And Moroni, the messenger, said, “With God nothing is impossible, especially organizing bureaucracy.” and I was amazed.

As my father’s worldly circumstances were very limited, we were under the necessity of laboring with our hands, hiring out by day’s work and otherwise, as we could get opportunity. Sometimes we were at home, and sometimes abroad, and by continuous labor were enabled to get a comfortable maintenance.

It is the year 1823 and my father’s family met with a great affliction by the death of my eldest brother, Alvin. And Hyrum, my brother, did begin to write for me.

In the month of October, 1825, I hired with an old gentleman by the name of Josiah Stoal, who lived in Chenango county, State of New York. He had heard something of a silver mine having been opened by the Spaniards in Harmony, Susquehanna county, State of Pennsylvania; and had, previous to my hiring to him, been digging, in order, if possible, to discover the mine, or hidden treasure of silver that might magically move while digging for it.

After I went to live with him, he took me, with the rest of his hands, to dig for the silver mine, and I picked up a shovel and dug along with everyone else, not being a treasure seeker or seer stone gazer at all. And when I saw the manner in which they dug, which was to have a person stare at a rock, and then decide to dig, yea, even at midnight, I said, “Nuts to this,” and quit.

During this time of employment, I was put to board with a Mr. Isaac Hale, of that place. His daughter is comely, and easy upon one’s eyes. I inquired after the health of her family and she actually spoke with me. It was magical, and the feeling in my bosom could only be compared to the love of God I felt when I first saw him in the grove.

I think there is a chance we might dance one day. And Hyrum did slap me in the head as I was saying this and asked me to focus on the story and not express any romantic feelings for this goddess among men. She stands over six foot tall which seems to turn other gentlemen away, and I for my height figure I have a chance with her, and Hyrum did write, Good luck with that, and I did see it and slapped him on the head.

The 18th of January, 1827, Joseph Smith was married to Emma, I, Hyrum was wrong, and I write a few words, because Joseph is on his honeymoon. And the wedding was faire, and all the family was invited, and no elopement was required, for Mr. Hale was proud of Joseph for turning away from the money diggers. So proud that he did give Emma a sizable dowery and it should set Joseph and Emma up well in whatever part of the country he should desire.

At length the time arrived for obtaining the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breastplate and the sword, which the angel agreed could be sold to a museum to finance the printing of the Book of Mormon. On the twenty-second day of September, one thousand eight hundred and twenty-seven, having gone as usual at the end of another year to the place where they were deposited, the same heavenly messenger delivered them up to me with this charge: You shall be responsible for these plates. We put a lot of work into keeping them from angry lamanites who really wanted to destroy them, so you really must be careful. Also the 34th page of the book of Alma bends a little funny, don’t screw up the words there. And if you should let them go carelessly, or through any neglect, you should be cut off.

And I said, “Cut off?! Like dead, or like, unable to translate for a season?”

And Moroni said, “Sorry, that’s me scaring you again… Just be careful with them, okay? They’re really important and I died for them! Look if you use all your endeavors to preserve them, until I call for them, they’ll be protected.

And I was comforted, because no sooner was it known that I had them, than the most strenuous exertions were used to get them from me. I sent my father to spy on Samuel Lawrence, the man I took the second year to the hill, and he had been hired by William Chase to form a treasure-hunting party, which I did not sign a contract with, to try and get them from me. Despite my father watching them all night, somehow they jumped me as I was carrying these 60 lbs plates home. Given that I could never defend them so early on, and the plates being so heavy, and the walk home exerting me, I saw at once, a host of warriors, clad as it were, Native Americans; and they did stand around me and guard me home. And my attackers did fear greatly, and did retreat, which is lucky because otherwise I might have dislocated my thumb hitting one.

But by the wisdom and assistance of God, they remained safe in my hands, until I had accomplished by them what was required at my hand. and I did not lose them for a time by handing over a portion of them to a man who said he walked and talked with Jesus in the form of a deer, because Martin Harris was a crazy wealthy man who wanted to be included on this, but due to the profits of the solid-gold hilted sword, I needed no financial assistance in publishing the book when the work was translated. And, according to arrangements, the messenger called for them, I delivered them up to him; and he has them in his charge until this day, being the second day of May, one thousand eight hundred and thirty-eight.

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Joseph Smith and the Rational God, Part 5 – Asking some questions of Moroni

He also quoted the second chapter of Joel, from the twenty-eighth verse to the last. He also said that this was not yet fulfilled, but was soon to be. And he further stated that the fullness of the Gentiles was soon to come in. He quoted many other passages of Scripture, and offered many explanations which cannot be mentioned here.

Again, he told me, that when I got those plates of which he had spoken—for the time that they should be obtained was not yet fulfilled—I should not show them to any person; neither the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim; only to those to whom I should be commanded to show them; if I did I should be destroyed.

And I replied, “Destroyed?! Why would you kill me for showing plates to people?”

And Moroni replied, “Sorry, there I go, doing that fear thing again. It’s really a bad motivator. If you show them to people, the odds that the person you show a giant golden book to will kill you and take the book are really too high. It’s not rational to show a golden book to people.”

And I said, “But the breastplate?”

and he replied, “It has jewels on it.”

And I said, “The Urim and Thummim?”

He replied, “You know it’s interesting that I said Urim and Thummim, because you’re not going to use that phrase for the next fifteen years. You’re going to call them ‘nephite interpreters.’ I just realized that. That’s neither here, nor there. The point is they are stones set into silver that let people see amazing things. They’ll try to steal them, too.”

And I said, “Okay, but my family, right, I could show them? And maybe my wife when I get married? They wouldn’t kill me.”

And he replied, “Yes, that makes sense. They could see them, and bare testimony.”

While he was conversing with me about the plates, and notice we were having a conversation, that’s what “conversing” means, the vision was opened to my mind that I could see the place where the plates were deposited, and that so clearly and distinctly that I knew the place again when I visited it.

After this communication, I saw the light in the room begin to gather immediately around the person of him who had been speaking to me, and it continued to do so until the room was again left dark, except just around him; when, instantly I saw, as it were, a conduit open right up into heaven, and he ascended till he entirely disappeared, and the room was left as it had been before this heavenly light had made its appearance.

And I was very impressed that I woke up my family. My father first, and explained to him what had happened. And I explained to him the things the angel said. While we were conversing about the plates we suddenly discovered that my room was again beginning to get lighted, and in an instant, as it were, the same heavenly messenger was again in the house.

He introduced himself to my Father, so that there would be no question about my tiredness the next day and commenced, and again related the very same things which he had done at his first visit, without the least variation. I assume this is so that I could memorize the scriptures, and my father would have the same instruction. Simply repeating the instructions when I had a clear vision of the place would seem, almost silly. Especially since he could appear anywhere at any time, as demonstrated by him appearing in my bedroom.

I then asked him a further question, “Why do you appear via a gradual light, but when leaving, you ascend through a conduit into heaven?”

Moroni then replied, “It is an illusion to the mortal mind. The whiteness you see is the opening of the conduit. When we angels travel, we must traverse faster than even light; which according to the laws of the universe, means that we, having resurrected bodies, must have our mass altered. To effect this change on our mass, allowing travel, the white conduits are required.”

Although shocked, I found my tongue and inquired, “But this effect upon one’s mass, it allows one to pass through the roof, despite having a physical body, without impacting the roof?”

Moroni replied, “As you have seen demonstrated, yes, the effect upon the mass does alter the relative space allowing one to pass through any object.”

Then, although I have memorized so many of his words and scriptures to exactness, knowing the few words he used differently; I decided to start writing in vague terms about what the angel said. He informed me of great judgments which were coming upon the earth, with great desolations by famine, sword, and pestilence; and that these grievous judgments would come on the earth in this generation. Having related these things, he again ascended as he had done before. Indeed, he did mention a war between the states, that would be fought over the question of slavery starting in North Carolina that would be most terrible. He mentioned a potato famine in Ireland that would come around the same time as this Civil War, driving many from their homes. He also mentioned how smallpox would severely impact his people in this generation; and how they would be driven out of their homes from the sea west to the sea east.

By this time, so deep were the impressions made on my mind, that sleep had fled from my eyes, and my father and I fetched Alvin, and woke him. And he did begin to write this tale on my behalf. But what was my surprise when again I beheld the same messenger in our home, and heard him rehearse or repeat over again to me the same things as before; so that Alvin could clearly and correctly make a record of the exact words and conversations, for we see that God cares about accurate history and will not suffer his people to doubt by failing to have words written. Does it not speak to his longsuffering and willingness to keep a good history that He had His servant, Moroni, repeat the tale to my Father and again to my Brother?

He also added a caution to me, telling me that Satan would try to tempt me (in consequence of the indigent circumstances of my father’s family), to get the plates for the purpose of getting rich. I assume also he mentioned this due to the contract I had signed with treasure seekers previous to this, but I was not a treasure seeker, and simply had signed a contract which was foolish of me. Moroni, was clearly aware that those treasure seekers would try to collect on that contract, seeing as I had found a golden object in the ground. This he forbade me, saying that I must have no other object in view in getting the plates but to glorify God, and must not be influenced by any other motive than that of building his kingdom; otherwise I could not get them. This is why I will never try to sell the copyright on any work that comes from this golden book. For such would illustrate that I had a motive other than building His kingdom.

Almost immediately after the heavenly messenger had ascended from me for the third time, the cock crowed, and I found that day was approaching, so that our interviews must have occupied the whole of that night.

My Father, understanding that this work, due to him having me, God, and Moroni, and receiving instruction as well as myself, was far more important than menial farm chores, sent me to recover the book.

As I headed to the location of the book, while crossing a fence, out of the field where we were, my strength entirely failed me, and I fell helpless on the ground, and for a time was quite unconscious of anything.

When I came to, I headed directly to the spot, as my father had already commanded me, he having spoken with Moroni already, and owing to the distinctness of the vision which I had had concerning it, I knew the place the instant that I arrived there.

Convenient to the village of Manchester, Ontario county, New York, stands a hill of considerable size, and the most elevated of any in the neighborhood. On the west side of this hill, not far from the top, under a stone of considerable size, lay the plates, deposited in a stone box. This stone was thick and rounding in the middle on the upper side, and thinner towards the edges, so that the middle part of it was visible above the ground, but the edge all around was covered with earth.

Having removed the earth, I obtained a lever, which I got fixed under the edge of the stone, and with a little exertion raised it up. I looked in, and there indeed did I behold the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breastplate, as stated by the messenger, As well as a largish sword with a golden hilt, and rusted steel blade. The box in which they lay was formed by laying stones together in some kind of cement. In the bottom of the box were laid two stones crossways of the box, and on these stones lay the plates and the other things with them.

I made an attempt to take them out, but was forbidden by the messenger who in no way resembled a toad, or a frog, or a salamander, nor did he have his throat slit from ear to ear. He was just the same as I described him earlier. I was again informed that the time for bringing them forth had not yet arrived because after all, the messenger had told me this three times already, and I kinda felt dumb for immediately forgetting that he said that. And he said the time would not arrive until four years from that time; but he told me that I should come to that place precisely in one year from that time, and that he would there meet with me, and that I should continue to do so until the time should come for obtaining the plates.

And I did say to him, “Moroni, what about this sword?”

And Moroni said, “What? Hmm, oh that, I’d forgotten all about that.”

And I did say, “This sword, with a pure gold hilt, is it required for the translation of God’s work?”

And Moroni did say, “No, it is not part of the translation.”

And I did reply, “Then let me sell this sword to a museum, that I may fund any printing costs of translating the book, and leave a testimony in a museum to the truthfulness of this work.”

And Moroni was amazed.

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Joseph Smith and the Rational God part 4 (Popularity, Ridicule, Fear, Tradition, Martyr and other Manipulations)

And I Joseph, did pray much, and read much in the Bible, and did prepare myself for further contact with God; for I had no doubt in my mind that I had some import, being contacted and taught by the Lord.

And I did not engage in any employ involving any magic, scrying, or anything else that might impact the world’s view upon this important thing that I might do, and for fear of the Lord, lest he rebuke me for turning to questionable employ, I did labor hard with mine own hand. Yea, even our entire family did cease to be idle, cease our loud laughter and our light speeches from our lustful desires and our pride and light mindedness.

And I did fall into some foibles of human nature (which will not be edited out by Willard Richards at a much later date), which, I am sorry to say, led me into divers temptations, offensive in the sight of God. In making this confession, no one need suppose me guilty of any great or malignant sins. A disposition to commit such was never in my nature. But I was guilty of levity, and sometimes associated with jovial company, but I did repent of these things and cease them in preparation of meeting again with God.

On the evening of the above-mentioned twenty-first of September, after I had retired to my bed for the night, I betook myself to prayer and supplication to Almighty God for forgiveness of all my sins and follies, and also for a manifestation to me, that I might know of my state and standing before him; for I had full confidence in obtaining a divine manifestation, as I previously had one.

While I was thus in the act of calling upon God, I discovered a light appearing in my room, which continued to increase until the room was lighter than at noonday, when immediately a personage appeared at my bedside, standing in the air, for his feet did not touch the floor.

He had on a loose robe of most exquisite whiteness. It was a whiteness beyond anything earthly I had ever seen Except the whiteness of the Lord and His Father, which I had seen in 1820, four years previous to this event. Yea, they were at least equally as white if not whiter, because I really did see them four years priornor do I believe that any earthly thing could be made to appear so exceedingly white and brilliant. His hands were naked, and his arms also, a little above the wrist; so, also, were his feet naked, as were his legs, a little above the ankles. His head and neck were also bare. I could discover that he had no other clothing on but this robe And an undergarment which was interesting to me for I never before thought that angels might wear undergarments, and so I make a noteas it was open, so that I could see into his bosom and see the undergarment, and it did appear around his neck like a large smile, and I did wonder if the undergarment was magic.

Not only was his robe exceedingly white, but his whole person was glorious beyond description, and his countenance truly like lightning, or like the noon day sun, the same as my previous vision. The room was exceedingly light, but not so very bright as immediately around his person. When I first looked upon him, I was afraid; but the fear soon left me, for I recognized him as that Indian, Moroni, that The Lord introduced me to at my first vision, and did say that I would meet again. And yea, the words of the Lord were fulfilled.

He called me by name, and gave me the tokens and symbols I was instructed to know a true messenger by; therefore, I had confidence that this messenger came from God.

He said God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people.

And I said, “Moroni, why should the world know my name and why begin by making me afraid?”

And Moroni said, “I’m sorry, that was rude. This work is very key. It will be wonderful, but it will make many people upset as so your name will be had for good, by people who appreciate it, and bad by those who hate it. It’s not really you, it’s the work. But I wanted you to know what you were getting into.”

And he further continued, “Now that I think about it, it would probably have been better for me to come in through the front door, introduce myself to your family and then make your hearts within you burn like Christ did in the New Testament. It wouldn’t have made you afraid at all, and instead would have brought your entire family in to help support you.”

He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He was actually very specific about this citing that they were, in fact, not simply among other individuals, but the source of everyone on the continent. As in, all of them called “indians.” I wrote this down in my journal, “I was informed also concerning the aboriginal inhabitants of this country, and shown who they were, and from whence they came; a brief sketch of their origin, progress, civilization, laws, governments, of their righteousness and iniquity, and the blessings of God being finally withdrawn from them as a people, was made known unto me.”

you can read it here: (Joseph Smith, Latter Day Saints, p.404-405).

I want to be clear, these are the Native Americans in THIS COUNTRY. I’d hate for a later version of myself to alter the location when facts were presented so I wrote this down to be very clear.

He also said that the fullness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;

Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.

I want to make a note of this now, because if I never wrote about the Urim and Thummim, and someone else were to mention it for the first time, like Samuel Lawerence, that old sooth sayer on the hill, it would be an embarrassment and basically contradict my whole story[1] .

After telling me these things, he commenced quoting the prophecies of the Old Testament. He first quoted part of the third chapter of Malachi; and he quoted also the fourth or last chapter of the same prophecy, though with a little variation from the way it reads in our Bibles. Instead of quoting the first verse as it reads in our books, he quoted it thus:

For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly shall burn as stubble; for they that come shall burn them, saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

And again, he quoted the fifth verse thus: Behold, I will reveal unto you the Priesthood, by the hand of Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.

Which verses had the following effect on me. I was first very afraid that we were at the end times and everyone was going to die, but then I was excited to know that first Elijah would come, and something called “priesthood” would be given. I had only known priesthood to be a group of men leading a church up until this point, so I inquired about the priesthood.

He replied that the Priesthood is the keys and authority for men to reveal the power of God on the earth, and without this priesthood, the power of god was not manifest.

And I, Joseph, inquired who had this priesthood, and Moroni replied that it had been lost with the early apostles except for a few who were not allowed to intervene at this point, but that I should meet them later.

He also quoted the next verse differently: And he shall plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to the fathers, and the hearts of the children shall turn to their fathers. If it were not so, the whole earth would be utterly wasted at his coming.

In addition to these, he quoted the eleventh chapter of Isaiah, saying that it was about to be fulfilled. He quoted also the third chapter of Acts, twenty-second and twenty-third verses, precisely as they stand in our New Testament which thing amazed me since he was an indian quoting greek. He said that that prophet was Christ; but the day had not yet come when “they who would not hear his voice should be cut off from among the people,” but soon would come.

To which I replied, truly I fear for all of mankind. It sounds great and dreadful.

And Moroni replied, “Sorry, I don’t mean to scare you. It would be terrible to have people serve god purely out of fear. Instead I was hoping to create a sense of urgency; that’s why we didn’t tell your family about this book for four years. I mean, we didn’t, but we should have, because this is very urgent, I assure you.”

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Joseph Smith and the Rational God – part 3

Questions and Answers

And I, Joseph, did return for a third day to the grove. And at this time my family became greatly excited about all that we had discussed and many of them were interested and wished to accompany us to the Grove, but we did not, as of yet, have them come.

But Alvin, my Brother, (Who wrote this record by his own hand) did come, and we saw the Lord for a third time.

And we did say as we approached, “Oh Lord; we have thought about what thou didst say about authority, and we have some questions for thee.”

“That is good,” replied the one who was identified as “Son,” “For asking questions is a good thing, and it will help one discover truth.”

“Oh Lord, We have looked at the scriptures to determine which of all religions are right, and little Don Carlos, he’s my brother, he said, ‘but how do we know the scriptures are right?’ And if authority is to be questioned, oh Lord, and the scriptures are written by authorities, well it begs the question, why should we trust the scriptures?”

“This is the right sort of question,” saith the Lord, “For it knocks upon the doors that bar knowledge, it seeks to find a deeper truth. Asking this sort of question will bring truth unto you.”

And Alvin and myself were much relieved that the Lord was grateful to have his scriptures questioned, and he did impart many words unto us of knowledge, but we, being so nervous did not write them all down, but we did write many, and we hope they are a guide to those who should read these words.

And the Lord said something close to, “In as much as I have made the claim ‘this is my beloved son, hear him,’ I have made a claim that is beyond common expectation, and thus extraordinary evidence should be presented to go with it. Behold, I could be the Devil appearing as an angel of light. Or I could be a dream or hallucination which are so common among the children of men. Therefore, the burden of proof upon my claim is mine, and I must redeem it, otherwise no man can be held responsible for their lack of faith. This thing is justice.”

And Alvin and myself were amazed that the Lord would prove himself to us, for we had never before thought of such an thing.

And the Lord said, “Behold the nail prints in my hands and feet, and the spear wound in my side. Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. These wounds are more than mortal man can bare, and these things are not permitted that the devil should copy them.”

“Therefore these marks are sure.”

“Now, Ye may say, ‘Lord, thou dost not give us anything but thy word in this matter, is this not a contradiction?’ but trust and faith must begin somewhere, and ye shall see this trust is not ill-placed.”

And the Lord did show us many signs and tokens by which we might know a true messenger. Indeed, He did say, “When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.

If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.

If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear—

Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.

If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.”

Then the Lord did introduce us to one such messenger. And my brother did remember that he was not writing the words, and did take up his pen again and did write.

“This is an angel, Moroni. He lived upon this continent long before the gentiles arrived. I introduce him now so that you may know him and there need not be any confusing accounts wherein ye might call him Nephi, or say he was a toad, or report him as a Spaniard cut ear-to-ear, nor that ye may need to pay an occult practicer a large sum of money that you might contact the dead.”

“But that ye may know that this is a true messenger, He will now shake your hand, and give you the tokens by which ye may know him to be true. And these Tokens are not to be kept secret, but should be known unto those who believe. But further, for men shall say that ye, Joseph Smith, invented these tokens, or that they were taken from the Masonic Order to which thine father belongs, I will cause a different image each day to appear in the minds and hearts of those who receive the token, that they might know this message is from me. And a false message will not generate the image in their minds.”

“Thus, if any man doubts a message, he can confirm the image with those around him who also received the message, and if all are agreed, then the message may be known to be true with a surety that is not perfect, for there is no perfect system on the Earth, nor shall there ever be, but we can correct mistakes as they occur.”

And thus Moroni did shake our hands, and did introduce himself, and told us about his people, and how Jesus did visit them once. And these things were interesting to us, but we know not why he was introduced, save that he should visit us again.

And the Lord did command that my family should come, and they were witness to Moroni, and the Lord, yea, My father, my Mother, My brothers and sisters were all witnesses. Yea, even female witnesses, for the Lord surely esteemeth one flesh as much as another, even one gender is not better than another.

And the Lord did not appear again, but we all rejoiced and did not attend the church in the area, and many of the preachers reviled against my entire family, because we asked hard questions, and questioned authority, and required a burden of proof. And the preachers did stir up the hearts of the citizens against us, but we were secure in the knowledge that the Lord had given us these tools and that they were not pursuing us for treasure hunting or some other illegal act.

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Joseph and the Rational God – Part 2

I, Joseph, did return unto the Grove, with my Brother, and did behold that the personages I did speak to the previous day were there again.

And Alvin and I had spent the night, with my family, conversing upon how a man might know truth, or which of all the religions were correct.

And I did approach the Lord, and I did say, “O Lord, and do not be angry with thy servant because of his weakness before thee; for we know that thou art holy and dwellest in the heavens, and that we are unworthy before thee; because of the fall our natures have become evil continually; nevertheless, O Lord, thou hast given us a commandment that we must call upon thee, that from thee we may receive according to our desires.”

Nevertheless, thou hast been merciful unto us. O Lord, look upon me in pity for I have conversed with my family and we do believe that the way to tell a true religion, or a religion which is thine, O Lord, is to listen to the leadership of the religion, and to obey them and see if the doctrine is thine or not. And we did come to this conclusion by reading thine own words in John 17:7, “If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”

And the Lord did speak unto me saying, “Fear not, for I am thy God and will still give the aid. I will not upbraid nor censure those who seek me earnestly. Now as trusting those who state their own authority, this is not a secure method, for behold, every man will claim his own authority. And every authority can be fooled, or speak his own mind, and claim it to be the mind of God. No religion that is mine would depend heavily upon the authority of leadership.”

“But as to trying works and testing them, this thing pleaseth me, for verily, if one did test the words with works, one could find truth. However, there is something that shall be known unto the peoples of the earth as ‘Confirmation Bias’ in that when one embarks upon an experiment upon the word, one is predisposed to believe an outcome, yea, and that very individual can sometimes accept events or words as confirming the outcome, and ignore those that would disprove it.

Therefore, a commandment I give unto you, My servant Joseph, inasmuch as ye have sought me earnestly, in wisdom and in truth, with pure intent, ye shall falsify all thine data. Of every attempt thou shalt attempt to prove it false, that thou mayest be more sure.”

“Nevertheless, I have more to teach thee. Go unto thine home and ponder these things with thine family and return unto me on the morrow that we may yet again converse.”

And Alvin and I did return unto our homes, and our family did discuss these things late into the night. And we did learn many things and think of many things, and we were very excited.

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Joseph Smith and the Rational God – Part 1

[Note: This is based on the concepts and thoughts on LessWrong.com, in the same way that the fanfic “Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality”[1] is. I guess that makes this a kind of fanfic, which I never thought I would write. But I think viewing the entire thing as though it were true, but rational, would be helpful to someone somewhere. Please enjoy. Direct quotes from Joseph Smith History are italicized so you can quickly skim them]

I, Alvin Smith, have been commanded by God to make this record of most remarkable events, on behalf of my brother. I make it with my own hand, as a scribe on his behalf. What follows is his story:

I, Joseph Smith, having seen a vision of God the Father, and Jesus Christ, received instruction to make a record immediately so as to prevent evil and conspiring men from taking confusion as a counter to actual events, for God sees all things in advance, and is wise in his choices, therefore I make this record, this day September 6th 1820. And Alvin is a witness to all these events, for, as the Lord hath said, “in the Mouths of two or three witnesses, shall every word be established.”

I was born in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and five, on the twenty-third day of December, in the town of Sharon, Windsor county, State of Vermont … My father, Joseph Smith, Sen., left the State of Vermont, and moved to Palmyra, Ontario (now Wayne) county, in the State of New York, when I was in my tenth year, or thereabouts. In about four years after my father’s arrival in Palmyra, he moved with his family into Manchester in the same county of Ontario—

His family consisting of eleven souls, namely, my father, Joseph Smith; my mother, Lucy Smith (whose name, previous to her marriage, was Mack, daughter of Solomon Mack); my brothers, Alvin (20), Hyrum, myself (14), Samuel Harrison, William, Don Carlos; and my sisters, Sophronia, Catherine, and Lucy.

I was one day reading the Epistle of James, first chapter and fifth verse, which reads: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Never did any passage of scripture come with more power to the heart of man than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart. I reflected on it again and again, knowing that if any person needed wisdom from God, I did; for how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know; for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible.

At length I came to the conclusion that I must either remain in darkness and confusion, or else I must do as James directs, that is, ask of God. I at length came to the determination to “ask of God,” concluding that if he gave wisdom to them that lacked wisdom, and would give liberally, and not upbraid, I might venture. Indeed, I hope anyone in authority who reads these words will focus on the importance on not upbraiding those who lack wisdom, and ask questions. This is really important. Honestly.

So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.

After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.

But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being—just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.

It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—”This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!”

I then immediately asked which, of all the religions was correct. The one referred to as “Son” instructed me to return to my house forthwith, and retrieve my Brother Alvin, so that two witnesses would be present. Further he instructed me to bring paper and writing material that a Record might be kept. For, he said, a record would be very key to his true people, and journals and other records would be a might part of this work. And whereas I am not mighty in writing, Alvin would write the words which I would say.

And I did so, and My brother and I did return to the spot, and The Lord was still there, and I did again enquire of him which of all the churches was correct.

And the Lord said, “How can you tell if a church or religion is correct? What tests have you run?”

And I replied, “Lord, I hadn’t though of testing religion. It seemed that I needed only to ask.”

And the Lord replied, “But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right, but your study must be thorough long before you ask, therefore I ask ‘What tests have you run?'”

And I, Joseph had not run any tests, and therefore I answered, “I have constructed no tests as of yet.”

And the Lord said, “There are many who claim to be mine who are not. Therefore, I give unto you a first test, that you may tell truth from error, if any man should fail to use reason, but instead should assault the character or the name of his opponent, that man is not of me. And ye shall call the first test, “Ad Hominem.” Those who use it are not of me nor of mine, and thus if they cry, “lo here,” or, “lo there,” thou mayest know that they come not from me if they continue to say, “lo here, but there is Racca,” or, “low there, but here is a fool.”

“Now go forward and apply this test and then return and report unto me and more light and knowledge will be granted.”

And Alvin and I, Joseph, did go and think upon this test the Lord had given us, and did devise several of our own tests and we did return and report the next day.

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First Vision Timeline

Evolution of the First Vision Story

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How to use these discussions: A guide

How to use these discussions

No name tags. You don’t need to shave. Be presentable and personable. Emotions matter.

These discussions were created to help those who may have left the church share their thoughts and feelings in a format that family and friends still in the church could appreciate. These are not intended to be weapons to attack the faith of individuals, but rather, tools to accommodate understanding.

We strongly encourage that you present these discussions with another person –not because that is a pattern established by Christ, but because having two agreeing individuals present is very difficult to disagree with. In addition, many people will not resort to personal attacks or harmful tactics when a stranger is present, making the information easier to teach all the way through. Sometimes, getting to the ending conclusions makes all the difference in the investigator’s attitude.

Encourage your investigator to share their feelings at any point. Emotions can run deep, from betrayal and anger to relief and elation, at hearing the material presented. Your job is to create a safe environment for open discussion.

If your investigator fidgets often, refuses to meet you in the eye, or lashes out, these are all signs of the environment becoming less safe. Do no hesitate to pause the discussion and recreate a friendly atmosphere of openness.

These discussions are not intended to always be read straight through. Many times a paragraph or section in one discussion may apply to a situation. Feel free to jump to that section and cover the information with the investigator to resolve any concerns he or she may have.

During the presentation, you’ll find various sections labelled, “Commitment.” These help an investigator progress along the path towards freedom of thought. Remember to build up on common ground, share your feelings, and to use “Will You” questions when getting an investigator to commit to the challenges presented. Doing this increases the chances of them committing and following those commitments. Always follow up on commitments made with an investigator.

If, at any time, your investigator seems ready to leave the church present them with the following information: http://www.mormonresignation.com/[1]

Remember, you’re doing this to help them learn more about their own beliefs and to help them understand yours. Maintain a positive, friendly environment, and resist attempts to bible-bash or prove yourself right, as these have been shown far less likely to commit anyone than emotional discussion has.

A good way to bring up these discussions with a stranger might be to say, “What if I could save you several hundred thousand dollars and several hours a week?”

Inactivity value calculator

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