Why did Joseph and Brigham talk about Quakers on the moon?

Posted on January 31, 2013 by Mithryn

It turns out there was a report in a newspaper that ran before any LDS quotes.  They were weighing in on this issue of the day… and taken in by the hoax:

The Great Moon Hoax

Brigham Young’s discourse on people living on the moon and the stars

Ironically, this was used to show that the LDS people were more learned than those around them.

Journal of Discourses 13:271-272, Brigham Young, July 24, 1870:

We are called ignorant; so we are: but what of it? Are not all ignorant? I rather think so. Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon? When we view its face we may see what is termed “the man in the moon,” and what some philosophers declare are the shadows of mountains. But these sayings are very vague, and amount to nothing; and when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the most ignorant of their fellows. So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized.

Joseph and Quakers

According to Oliver B. Huntington (Journal of Oliver B. Huntington, Vol. 3, p. 166; as recorded at the Utah State Historical Society), Joseph Smith taught that:

The inhabitants of the moon are more of a uniform size than the inhabitants of the earth, being about 6 feet in height.

They dress very much like the Quaker style and are quite general in style, or fashion of dress.

They live to be very old; coming generally, near a thousand years.

This is the description of them as given by Joseph the seer, and he could “See” whatever he asked the father in the name of Jesus to see.

In The Young Woman’s Journal (published by the Young Ladies’ Mutual Improvement Associations of Zion 1892, vol. 3, pp. 263-64), it reads:

Nearly all the great discoveries of men in the last half century have, in one way or another, either directly or indirectly, contributed to prove Joseph Smith to be a Prophet.

As far back as 1837, I know that he said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we do — that they live generally to near the age of 1000 years.

He described the men as averaging near six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style.

In my Patriarchal blessing, given by the father of Joseph the Prophet, in Kirtland, 1837, I was told that I should preach the gospel before I was 21 years of age; that I should preach the gospel to the inhabitants upon the islands of the sea, and to the inhabitants of the moon, even the planet you can now behold with your eyes.

Scroll down to “Our Sunday Chapter” to read the entire account.

Posted in Early Church History (1800s), Humor and wit | Leave a comment

LDS Church in New Zealand spends ≈ 50% of tithing on salaries

Posted on January 31, 2013 by Mithryn

Link to tax returns here[1].

Comparing the overall donations to salaries, I get the following:

2009 – 111.74% (Church run school being funded, school is shut down)

2010 – 52.81%

2011 – 50.71%

2012 – 41.06%

The slowly declining ratio is NOT due to them being more conservative, but rather that the members are giving more tithing over time.

In 2011, there were 104,115 members[2], which means that donations were roughly only $303.70 per member per year. That’s not exactly 10%… or they don’t make much money in New Zealand.

But let’s go based on wards to calculate active members. 207 wards x 150 individuals per ward would mean the average donation is $1,018.32 per member–meaning that they are either poor as dirt, or very few people are paying tithing.

Anyway, the actual tax reports are linked above. Have fun with some of your own calculations.

Posted in Church Finances | 1 Comment

Scan of the Nauvoo Expositor

Posted on January 31, 2013 by Mithryn

Scan of original newspaper.  Notice that about 1/3 of it is a testimony of the Book of Mormon, 1/3 is tactfully addressing polygamy, and 1/3 hints at Joseph trying to become president via a secret quorum of 50.

William and Jane Law‘s story, I think, is very relevant to understanding why someone would publish such a newspaper.

Posted in Polygamy, Timelines | Leave a comment

Tithing settlement: A new meaning

Posted on January 31, 2013 by Mithryn

“…the priority of the Church was evidenced in their quick settlement of the matter rather than the releasing of that financial information.”

Legal case against the church and the outcome: official legal brief.

Posted in Church Finances | Leave a comment

Jacob 5: Why vineyards and olives?

Posted on January 31, 2013 by Mithryn

Jacob 5:3, “For behold, thus saith the Lord, I will liken thee, O house of Israel, like unto a tame olive tree, which a man took and nourished in his vineyard; and it grew, and waxed old, and began to decay.”

The parable appears to be drawn from two biblical sources–the Song of the Vineyard in Isaiah 5, and Paul’s discussion of the relation of the Gentiles to the Jews in Romans 11. The problem for the author of the Book of Mormon is that Isaiah and Paul used slightly different metaphors–Isaiah that of a vineyard, and Paul that of an olive tree. It is thus quite significant that halfway through the parable, Zenos appears to forget that he is using an olive tree as his metaphor, and begins to use the whole vineyard as his focus.

Jacob 5:41, “And it came to pass that the Lord of the vineyard wept, and said unto the servant: What could I have done more for my vineyard?”

Significantly, the break appears at the same point that the Book of Mormon quotes a passage from Isaiah:

Isaiah 5:4, “What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?”

From this point on, the prophet Zenos refers exclusively to the, “fruit of the vineyard,” apparently forgetting that vineyards yield grapes, not olives.

Holy Hanna… thanks.

I had picked up on this at some point on my mission, and even made a note; never thinking that it would clearly indicate copying out of the Bible from two separate sources.

More Book of Mormon issues here.

Posted in Book of Mormon | 1 Comment

Things that make me go Hmmmm (Jokes)

Posted on January 31, 2013 by Mithryn

Some random thoughts. Some I’ve posted before, but others are new. I imagine I could do a George Carlin style stand up routine for exmormons using these:

  • Adam using a compass and a square; or not having a clue how they are used.
  • Adam’s altar not being wiped out by the flood.
  • Cain’s offering being rejected because it was of grain and not a lamb when there is clearly a grain offering.
  • God’s decision to paint someone black because of murder, and why murderers and Satan worshipers today don’t change skin color (or have a “mark” set upon them by God).
  • Why, if the sons of god married the daughters of man (or vice versa in the JST), didn’t God do something about it? Clearly this was going to harm the entirety of the Earth to the point of needing a flood. Why didn’t he do something to prevent it? You know, like make a mark on them, or turn them black? Seems simple enough, and clearly it worked for Cain.
  • Noah, Noah, Noah. Noah has been done to death. Let’s forget the whole ark, and getting every animal in. Ignore that Cain would need to be waterskiing off the back of the ark to still be alive and be bigfoot today. But answer me this, if Noah was such a great guy, why does he curse his son for seeing him naked? I mean, there are a lot of reasons to curse someone, and having them see your schlong when it’s your kid, I can get it to some degree; but this is a classic example of a parent screwing up and blaming the kid.

 I’m drunk, I’m naked, I’m lying down… it’s all your fault… 

I might as well paint you black and promise that my other sons will kill and subjugate your kids for the rest of time for that one.

  • Moses. Moses confuses me. Not because he was a Hebrew prince who could have taken over the kingdom and released all the slaves that way, but instead God thought it would be fun to do things the hard way.

No, I can see God’s logic. Sometimes your kids need to be whopped hard and beaten down until they’re all dead, and you have to start with grandkids. It’s easier that way. No, what I see is that Moses wasn’t really a bright guy. He relies on God to send curses that are very general. God shows him that he can hit specific targets by showing him leprosy that would hit a specific individual and then sends plagues of flies and frogs.

That’s the reverse of the U.S. military policy. It’s not hitting a specific target with a predator drone, it’s hitting as much of the civilian population as possible.

Don’t you think that if fire came from heaven and scorched Ramses where he stood, the next in line to Pharaoh would have noticed? Maybe he would have a hard heart too, whatever that means, but I bet after three or four strikes, one of them would have gotten the picture, and no civilians needed to deal with lice, frogs, or whatever else.

And can I just take a second and say that if you are going on a road trip on foot for 40 years, the last thing you need is gold and jewels. Totally despoiling Egypt, yeah, that’s fun. I get that, but, wow, that would get heavy. So they build a cow with the gold they were told to take with them. Not a bright idea, but at least it puts the heavy stuff in one place.

And then moses makes them drink it… somewhere in the Egyptian desert there should be a mass of human turds that have gold inside… because our bodies don’t process gold. It’s out there for some archaeologist, and any day now you’ll read about the gold turd farm, I’m sure of it.

  • I skipped Abraham because Abraham has also suffered enough at the hands of critics. Child sacrifice can do that to you.

No, I want to point out that Isaac was a low-watt bulb. No, I’m serious. He’s willing, at the age of 20, to be sacrificed. He can’t pick his own wife and the servant goes to find a wife. He bribes the girl and seems very, very happy she’ll go along with it. A little too happy. Like he knows something she doesn’t when she hasn’t seen the guy.

And later in life, Isaac can’t tell that goat hair isn’t the hair on his son’s arm. No, there’s something wrong with this one.

He was born to a woman in her 90’s and if ever there was a candidate for a prophet who had Down syndrome, it’s Isaac.

  • Then you have Jacob and his sons. Gosh, what a dysfunctional family. The women are trading the prophet’s sexy time, the children are doing their daughters-in-law, or selling their brother into slavery, or killing the guys who want to marry their sister… these are the equivalent of Hebrew white trash.

I just picture God looking at this whole bunch. I mean, these are the good guys. These are the ones the Earth was saved for. And I say, we’re lucky we only got one flood. Ya know?

  • I don’t think he was really mad that Moses touched the rock to get water out of it. I think he’d just had a hard first several thousand years of the Earth and lost it for a minute.

That’s why he kills Moses and then translates him without him tasting death… because when you’re all powerful, things like that are easy.

Posted in Humor and wit | Leave a comment

Correlation: What happened between 1890-1920 that created the modern church

Posted on January 31, 2013 by Mithryn

Correlation: An Uncorrelated History

Posted in 1900-1920, Correlation | Leave a comment

Epic Mormon Battles of History part 1: B.H. Roberts vs. Joseph F. Smith on changes to the Book of Mormon

Posted on January 31, 2013 by Mithryn

In this corner, famed historian, sporting a ‘stash that could clean a chimney, sent by the church leaders, responsible for finding the liberty jail, and obtaining many rare letters and connections in conjunction with the forming of the church –his historical task was set out by apostolic decree: B. H. ROBERTS!

And his opponent, Utah State Representative, church historian under George Albert Smith AND later prophet to the one and only LDS faith, Joseph F. Smith!

Who of these two heavy weights will win in an all out-and-out fight to declare the final word of the malevolent motives of “printer of Mormon”? Did Gilbert gravely grift the graven plates? or was Joseph Smith’s grammer the real culprit?

Joseph F. Smith:

“During the past week or two I have received a number of letters from different parts of the United States written by people, some of whom at least are a little concerned because they have been approached by enemies of the Church and enemies of the Book of Mormon, who have made the statement that there have been one or two or more thousand changes in the Book of Mormon since the first edition was published. Well, of course, there is no truth in that statement.

“It is true that when the Book of Mormon was printed the printer was a man who was unfriendly. The publication of the book was done under adverse circumstances, and there were a few errors, mostly typographical — conditions that arise in most any book that is being published — but there was not one thing in the Book of Mormon or in the second edition or any other edition since that in any way contradicts the first edition, and such changes as were made were made by the Prophet Joseph Smith because under those adverse conditions the Book of Mormon was published. But there was no change of doctrine.

“Now, these Sons of Belial who circulate these reports evidently know better. I will not use the word that is in my mind” (The Improvement Era, December, 1961, pp. 924-925).

B. H. Roberts:

“That errors of grammar and faults in dictation do exist in the Book of Mormon (and more especially and abundantly in the first edition) must be conceded; and what is more, while some of the errors may be referred to inefficient proof-reading, such as is to be expected in a country printing establishment, yet such is the nature of the errors in question, and so interwoven are they throughout the diction of the Book, that they may not be disposed of by saying they result from inefficient proof-reading or referring them to the mischievous disposition of the ‘typos’ or the unfriendliness of the publishing house. The errors are constitutional in their character; they are of the web and woof of the style, and not such errors as may be classed as typographical. Indeed, the first edition of the Book of Mormon is SINGULARLY FREE FROM TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS” (Defense of the Faith, by B. H. Roberts, pp. 280-281; reprinted in A New Witness For Christ in America, by Francis W. Kirkham, Vol. 1, pp. 200-201).

A footnote on the same page: “But after due allowance is made for all these conditions, the errors are so numerous, and of such a constitutional nature, that they cannot be explained away by these unfavorable conditions under which the work was published.”

Photos of the printer’s manuscript can be seen at the University of Utah Library Special Collections, in case anyone actually believes Joseph F. Smith. Verification of B.H. Roberts is simple, direct and easy.

Posted in Epic Battles of History | Leave a comment

Order of the Arrow Ceremony – Masonic Ties

Posted on January 31, 2013 by Mithryn

Here is a copy of the ceremony.

I think you’ll find that it has similarities to masonry (Lord Byron was a mason) that also match the temple (three knocks with a mallet, for example).

Posted in Masonry | 2 Comments

Leonardo da Vinci exhibit at The Leonardo in SLC and what it teaches about God’s nature

Posted on January 31, 2013 by Mithryn

Not that they were trying. My phone blipped my picture, but at the exhibit there is a “Wooden Submarine” designed by Leonardo. The man was a mad genius as he also had diving suits, hang gliders, wooden tanks, etc.

Now, this was an idea so revolutionary 500 years ago, that the council he designed it for rejected it (they were going to be besieged by a foreign power by sea, and da Vinci thought they could sneak up and cut holes in the other side’s boats).

So let’s go to the brother of Jared. Remember the subs there? The point is that the submarines are not contemporary technology, but are off by about 3700 years.

I’m going to repeat that for emphasis. God, in the Book of Mormon, handed man technology from 3700 years in the future.

So just for comparison, let’s list some other technologies that were 3700 years (or so) in the future that God didn’t give man:

  • Boiling water and germ theory: 32 years after Joseph Smith’s leg operation.
  • Egyptian language translation so that more than one person could read the golden plates, or at least work on them: Within Joseph’s lifetime (First Rosetta stone translations were in 1841).
  • Motor Engines: 60 years after the Pioneers crossed the plains.
  • Printing Press: 1400 years after Christ spoke, when the message could have been mass distributed and errors easily corrected.
  • Blood Transfusion: really, this would have been great to share at any time.
  • Rockets and gunpowder for the Nephites to win the war: from 1400s (Spanish arrival) to 600 B.C. (Nephi’s departure) it is only a 2000 years difference in technology. 3700 years would put the Nephites building an A-bomb and F-22s.

Whenever you hear a member saying that, “God works by natural means,” remind them of the fucking submarine sitting in the beginning of Ether that pretty much disproves that.

TL;DR: da Vinci’s one-man submarine plans were amazingly advanced for his day, illustrating exactly how far out of time the brother of Jared’s submarine in the BOM is, and that honestly God’s choice about what He reveals just kinda shows He’s a dick.

Ether 6:11 – And thus they were driven forth, three hundred and forty and four days upon the water.

My father served in the Navy. He took a string, followed the currents, and determined it would take three hundred and forty six days to follow the currents from the place FARMS said that the brother of Jared left from to reach America.

Of course, the trick, after having lived for a while, was that FARMS did the same thing to determine the possible places for the brother of Jared to leave from… and so it matched.

But yes, one could do so, if one had a way to store food.

Of course, Even da Vinci’s sub would have sunk without modifications… that’s what happens when you design something you’ve never built.

Could a craft be built that matches the description of the text that could be launched from the Old World and arrive in the New World without being steered?

Yes, but it couldn’t take a person. The simple amount of water, food, and waste disposal would be difficult to get right on the first try.

Let alone 8 boats, with elephants and bees on board, for a trial run.

Imagine Mythbusters doing it, and sinking the first thirty times. It’s something on that scale.

Posted in Current issues | Leave a comment