Social media has enabled communication between friends like never before. It’s also enabled lies to be spread (and debunked more quickly) than ever before. The lies Mormons tell are typically hold-overs from before Snopes was invented, and most Mormons may not realize they are lying, or simply justify the lie because the church is too good and you, their neighbor, would “make such a good member!” Next time a member sends you one of these lies, feel free to send them a link to this list.
Also, to you members, before your blood begins to boil on my definition of a lie, I’m using the one given in Gosple Principles lesson 31: Honesty
Lying is intentionally deceiving others. Bearing false witness is one form of lying…There are many other forms of lying. When we speak untruths, we are guilty of lying. We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth. Whenever we lead people in any way to believe something that is not true, we are not being honest.
Lie number 1: Missionaries are there to share a simple message, or are not there to convert you.
Yes, yes, yes. You people who have always seen through this one and that’s fair, but the members really think you might believe that the church spends millions of dollars (er, excuse me, the missionaries spend “Their own money” which they gave to the church and then the church gives them back to live on as well as flight tickets, apartment rentals, utility costs, etc.) just to share a nice message. But the reality is that missionaries are selling a product, and they are measured by the micro-conversions leading up to that product.
Number of messages shared? No one gets credit for that. Number of times you go to church with them, yeah that’s a metric, but it’s a minor one. Baptisms. It’s all about baptisms. The numbers reported to the District leader include how many challenges to baptism you made that week. That goes up to a Zone Leader, and that to a Mission President. In the general conference, what number is reported? Number of Convert Baptisms, in front of the whole church, every 6 months. “Simple message” is a hook. The missionaries use a sales technique they are told is the “Commitment pattern” but every Vector/Cutco, pest Control, living scripture, or telecommuting sales agent knows it is how to break down barriers and make a sale.
Lie #2: No one is paid in the church
This one is most frequently stated by missionaries who are “paying their own way”, and don’t get me wrong, the missionary force being so devoted and putting so much money in, is remarkable. But just a step or two above every missionary is a man being paid. And yes, it’s always a man.
Mission Presidents receive above $100,000 a year, the average mission president receives $170k and I’ve personally known ones who received $340k. So why the lie? Well, one, it makes the missionaries who are living in dirt-poor conditions in 3rd world countries feel better. Also it lets the church pay one mission president $240k less than other mission presidents.
How do they get away with it? An IRS loophole where the mission president pays for whatever it is first (Say, a maid to clean the house, or Christmas presents, or first class travel for their whole family to a famous tourist attraction in their country… all 100% covered) and the the church reimburses the mission president. So they may not be “Paid” with a salary, but they do receive “compensation for their time”. Deceptive no?
Lie #3: It’s all about eternal families
Oh, Mormons are big on families, no mistake, as long as you conform. But step out of line and suddenly that “eternal family” rhetoric becomes something to bludgeon a “wayward” child over the head with.
For example, the LGBT community in Utah is well aware that the primary cause of homelessness in Utah for teens is being not part of the “Gender norm” the church dictates
Or if you stop believing: Just this past week, a general authority of the church spoke at BYU’s commencement for the need to “Disassociate” with those who have lost faith
It’s all about family as a control mechanism. Now your well-meaning Mormon friend might say that one talk at BYU doesn’t constitute what all Mormons believe, but I can give dozens of examples where at conference, from the pulpit prophets have called those who don’t believe, “Lazy”, “Darkened”, “Tools of the Adversary”, “Foolish”, and most recently in the April General Conference by Deiter Uchtdorf, “Lacking in integrity”. Go ahead and tell your spouse you love them, then call them those names and see if it’s all fine and dandy. No? Not exactly loving is it?
Lie #4: The Mormon Church was never Racist.
Here is the published church essay, on LDS.org admitting that Leaders of the church caused policy that lasted for a 150 years based on their own racist views. Oh, and the church never told the members about this essay which is kinda dishonest too, so they might be very surprised
In 1852, President Brigham Young publicly announced that men of black African descent could no longer be ordained to the priesthood, though thereafter blacks continued to join the Church through baptism and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Following the death of Brigham Young, subsequent Church presidents restricted blacks from receiving the temple endowment or being married in the temple. Over time, Church leaders and members advanced many theories to explain the priesthood and temple restrictions. None of these explanations is accepted today as the official doctrine of the Church.
Yup, leaders did it, and the church has no idea why; just kept people out of “Eternal families” and the belief they could get to heaven based on skin color.
Lie #5: Polygamy ended over 100 years ago
This one was told by Gordon B Hinkley on the air waves in the 90’s so perhaps the member can be forgiven for not knowing that the last LDS (yes, LDS, not FLDS) polygamous relationship in this life, where two women could be sitting in the pew next to their husband, legitimately LDS and able to go to the temple in the day and have sex together that night, was as late as 1964.
You see, the apostles didn’t stop marrying after they church issued a decree in the 1890’s that plural marriage was to end. One apostle went so far as to get married in 1905. His wife was 19 years old. And since the church only stopped adding new marriages, they didn’t break apart old ones, it turns out that all those sealed before stayed married. The 19 year old who married the apostle Crowley, died in 1964 (and she died early, if she had lived to a full age 1977 would have been easily obtainable). So yes, new marriages were stopped 100 years ago, but kids could grow up in a polygamous home as legitimate LDS members until my generation.
Lie #6: Early marriages were common in the 1800s
So you’ve known this person for years and had lunch a few times, maybe over for dinner. Finally, for some reason, Helen Mar Kimball or one of the other teenage brides of Joseph Smith (that the church admitted to in this essay, but still hasn’t told most of the members about as of this writing, going so far as to leave it off the official list of published essays).
“Well, I don’t know much about that”, says your member friend, “The marrying age was a lot younger back then.” It’s easy to check: http://classroom.synonym.com/age-marriage-us-1800s-23174.html
the average age of a first marriage for men was 26 years, and the average age of marriage for women was 22 years.
Yup, it’s a known quantity. Easy to verify on half a dozen sites with Google. You see, there is this thing called the “Census” and it records ages of marriage. This 22 years of age, includes all the Mormon outliers bringing the average age down too!
Lie #7: We don’t believe you will go to hell
I am sad to say, I’ve said this one myself. The trick is that when Mormons say “Hell” they typically mean the Bugs Bunny-devil-with-a-pitchfork and hot coals place. So no, they legitimately don’t believe that will happen.
Ask them, instead; “Do you believe there will be afterlife consequences for me because of my belief, and that those consequences will be worse than yours?”
They will answer they do. See they believe you’ll go to “Spirit Prison” which is totally different from Hell. Also that there is a place called the “telestial kingdom” after judgement. Still no coals, but it is a punishment for actions in this life as well as belief.
Me? Oh I get my own “Special Hell” for those who joined mormonism and then left it. Yes, right there with people who talk in the Theater. It’s called “Outer Darkness”. But they only send family members they love there who rejected the beliefs, see; it’s all about “Eternal Families”.
What’s that my Mormon friends? You say that I’m still not bad enough to go to Outer Darkness. Well, please tell me which prophet described who will after Brigham, because he sure as “hell” put me there.
Lie #8: We just want to invite you to the baptism/wedding/church activity because you’re a good friend
There is a church doctrine “Every member a missionary”. They have lessons multiple times a year about inviting friends out or inviting them to meet the missionaries. No joke.
Lie #9: We can think the way we want. We are encouraged to learn and study.
Here is a timeline of thought control in the church. Notice the “you can think, but not really” talks are more frequent this year than prior years.
So yes, study; but always temper that study with faith, as many many of the quotes say.
Lie #10: We’re not anti-science.
Oh yes, I went there. Fun fact, my Grandmother almost dated Philo T. Farnsworth, the inventor of the television (she turned him down). I know that you can rattle off a lot of engineering done by members, or a member of the church who has “Science” in his title at work. I can even hear you protest “I love science!”. That’s not what I’m talking about.
What I’m talking about is that as soon as DNA evidence proves that the Native Americans are not Lamanites, or that Coffee isn’t bad for you, or that Noah’s world wide flood is not a possibility you don’t change your beliefs at all. You don’t respect science. But, as soon as Cigarettes are shown to cause cancer you’re happy to proclaim Joseph Smith’s Word of Wisdom a scientific success. When it was learned that LDS individuals lived 11 years longer than the average, that was added to my missions’ tracts (yes, this actually occurred and we were told to share it). We weren’t given the statistical knowledge behind it, it was just a sales pitch. When you claim that marriages are 50% more likely to last in the church or share that article that seems to link the middle east with Native Americans or quote some journal that seems to validate your belief, then you “love science”. But if it contradicts you, suddenly science is something that takes a back step to faith.
Let me tell you, that’s not loving science. That’s abusing science. If it were a person, you’d only date them when they told you what you wanted to hear. If they disagreed with you, you’d physically shove them to the back of a closet only pulling them out when they agreed to say things you liked.
Please, stop abusing science, and claiming you love it.
There you go, 10 lies that I think just about every LDS Mormon shares. FLDS, Allred Group, and even the community of Christ have a similar list of things they claim too, so I think it fits to ascribe it to all Mormons, but I’d need to adjust a few quotes for their particular branch.
Now, share this with your Mormon friend who just told you one of these lies and see how fast they stop sharing things on social media with you.
Typo in Lie 6: You either meant 19th Century or 1800’s, not 1900’s.
thank you. fixed.
And I think you meant to say: “… 1800s, not 1900s.” I think it was a great ten points.
Are you really saying that the number one reason for teen homelessness in Utah is linked directly to gender identity in the LDS church? It seems like drugs would take that position and not a family rejecting their homosexual child.
What we were taught about Drug addiction is all wrong. Namely that kids with a strong support system are very unlikely to be addicted: https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari_everything_you_think_you_know_about_addiction_is_wrong/transcript?language=en
That said, I think even in LDS communities, one is likely to send addicts for treatment, but gays and trans kids out the door.
Drug addiction is recognized as a problem that needs to be corrected, whereas homosexuality is not.
Both are destructive, but only one is treated as such.
Simply put, the issue is not that parents reject their homosexual children at a higher rate than a drug addicted kids, it is that the addict says, “I need help” but the homosexual has been brainwashed into thinking his/her condition is normal.
FYI: I’m not mormon.
“brainwashed into thinking it is normal”.
Such not cool words, dude. Get out of your house. Go meet some homosexuals. Learn that they are people too. And that it is, in fact, normal. It’s on the bell curve.
The CDC reports that 1 in 5 male homosexuals are HIV+ and that nearly 700,000 Americans have died from AIDS and that currently 1.2 million Americans are infected with HIV and many are not even aware of it. The CDC also reports that 34 million men, women and children have died from AIDS worldwide and that 37 million people are infected with AIDS. In addition, 1 million people died from AIDS in 2016. AIDS researchers know the homosexual who introduced AIDS to the United States and who was patient zero. They also know a homosexual male Canadian flight attendant was primarily responsible for spreading AIDS across our nation. Epidemiologists have determined that because of the unnatural practices of homosexuals matched with their extreme promiscuity, the number of STD’s in America have exploded from 5 in the 1960’s to 27 today. Furthermore, male homosexuals are referred to as pederasts which is Greek for “lovers of boys”. Homosexuals are 20 times more likely to molest children than heterosexuals and do so at a much higher frequency, as the case of Jerry Sandusky clearly illustrates. Along with that, 80% of all cases of child molestation in the Catholic Church involved male children.
Homosexuals are not normal, my friend… they are very dangerous.
>Homosexuals are not normal, my friend… they are very dangerous.
This is hate speech. You are providing evidence that faithful members are guilty of hate crimes. Please alter your reply or expect me to forward this to the FBI
Wow – Truthseeker is a real dumb@ss…
It’s not even challenging to debunk that level of stupid:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-37767179
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
Look up the definition of normal, or better yet, look at a real bell curve. That big bump in the middle is what MOST people are commonly doing, scoring, etc. Most people, are NOT homosexuals. If you’ve ever taken a norm-referenced, standardized test, you would know that you were being compared to nationwide average results of other students, i.e., the norm. At either end of an IQ bell curve (where it tapers off) there are those falling both below and above the norm. MOST people have average IQ’s. A much LESS significant number have IQ’s below 70 or above 100 so, yes, if we measure the number of self professed homosexuals, they will occupy (and this is a generous estimation), 10% of the total population. That means 90% of the rest of the population are NOT homosexuals. You want to be gay, that’s fine, I don’t care one way or another, but don’t claim it’s normal, because it isnt. Facts don’t care about ‘being cool’. And, no, that doesn’t make me a hater or a homophobe to point out the error in your specious logic.
“Normal” in this case means you can’t cut them out of the bell curve. For every bell curve, there is 10% that are gay of a sample that represents the population.
Removing them from the bell curve would sku the curve.
They are part of “Normal”.
I totally agree!
A potential addenda to Lie #3:
The video below was posted on LDS Philanthropies’ youtube channel (I think) about a year ago. It encourages parents of non temple-worthy children to disinherit them and will the assets to the church. There was, apparently, an uproar from members, and the video was taken down. Luckily, copies were downloaded and archived, and re-uploaded to youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNRlg6O8ekU
It’s okay to walk away from the Mormon church if you don’t believe it. Attacking it makes you seem desperate to justify yourself. Just walk away. Let it go. Move on. Everyone will feel better.
oh oh oh, want to tell me how to live my life do you?
First, get your leaders to stop being petty in attacking the exmormon. You know like the BYU talk I mentioned, or Uchtdorf stating we lack integrity or are lonely. Because the finger you are pointing at me sounding “Desperate to justify myself” only applies way more for leaders of a world-wide organization.
Next, ask them to get out of politics. How many bills did they impact this session? Medical Marijuana, alcohol during an R-Rated movie at Brewvies, Porn as Health Crisis. Once the Church stops attacking me via legislation we can talk about it
But finally, you need to get the crosshairs off my kids. There are literally dozens of adults all committed to ensaring my kids via lies like the ones above, and they have a decent sized budget to work with.
I’m just one dad, trying to protect my kids from your lies.
You tell me how to live my life, Let me recommend that you curb your church’s enthusiasm, or just live with that you deserve to be attacked.
As your own leaders once said:
“If we have the truth, [it] cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.” (J. Reuben Clark, counselor in the First Presidency)
The problems in the Church are caused by leaders, who are human and fallible. Don’t focus on or worry about them, my friend. Focus on Jesus who shed blood from every pore of His body and hung on a cross because of His great love for you and for me.
“Cursed be the man who putteth his trust in the arm of flesh.” Trust in Jesus, my friend, not in fallen man.
Also, Jesus commanded us to forgive each other. Forgive fallible and fallen (“all have fallen short of the glory of God”) church leaders and in doing so this bitterness that has taken root in your soul will melt away and you will find peace.
God bless you and your family, my friend. God bless you.
Pores were not discovered until the 1700’s. That the book of Mormon mentions Jesus having pores is an anachronism and evidence the book is an 19th century work of fiction.
Except ignoring a problem, a dangerous problem, in the name of forgiveness can be self-destructive and literally more harmful than any worry and bitterness in one’s heart. If someone was literally physically attacking one’s children at that moment, it is better to stop them and also prevent them from doing the same thing again, than it would be to instead quietly forgive them as they continue their assault.
So if you believe an organization is actually doing measurable harm to your children, your family, or anyone else you may care about, you may find in the measure that protecting them from harm is worth any stress it may do to your spirit.
And if one and their family are totally outside the reach of the church, where they can no longer do harm upon them, well, one may still find it worthwhile to be a “watchman on the tower” so to speak, to warn others of what lies ahead.
Ok to walk away , how about run away ? sprint away ? And telling the truth is attacking ? Ok lets get this straight , I have a book which my mission president told us to buy, it came out in 1976, out of print . My mission was 77-79 , on page 620 it reads ” since the early days of the church blacks did not receive the priesthood” Very plain and simple fact . So if i shared that in 1977 with a black man was i attacking him ? Or if he was man for not receiving the priesthood was he attacked , since at that time that was doctrine practiced for 150 years .
Now fast forward to when the church essay came out saying that 150 years of documented doctrine is now theories they disavow , sweep under the rug.
So when those of us who leave and where not told the truth , its alot like those people who got bullied by Lance Armstrong , knowing he was lying .
At least he came clean, the church never has .
I believe this church has taken tons of my time and life experiences. Same for my family members still in. There is a lot to vent about. It’s the way we want to use our 1st amendment right, if you don’t like it, you just walk away.
It is vital that lies are dispelled. I respect people who walk away from cults and speak out.
If of course you are saying Mormonism is a cult then you are in fact wrong. One definition of s cult is a group where cult members have to do whatever the cult leaders say no matter what. Let’s say the Mormon Prophet said for all Mormons to sell all their things and move to Utah. Well, maybe 21% of Mormons would do it in a femtoseconds no questions asked. But the other 79% of us would pray about it and ask God if what the Prophet was saying was the right thing to do. If we felt like it wasn’t we wouldn’t do it. If we felt like God wanted us to then we would. In a cult you can’t think. You have to do what the cult leader says no matter what. If you don’t do it they might do something like kill you or some other thing like maybe a warning to do it and if you still didn’t then they would kill you or do a form of torture. But the Mormon church of course does not to that. If you mean cult by a religion that worships a object and/or a being then you are correct. If you are meaning the definition of a cult “a religion that may be strange or weird to some” then you are correct. Mormonism is strange to probably everyone. Well, at first at least. If there is another definition I did not name and it is the one your talking about then please say it and I will prove you wrong on how the Mormon church is not your definition of a cult or you might as well be right.
I think you underestimate the sway of the LDS religion. Brigham did say all the members were to pack up and move to Utah. He excommunicated those who didn’t obey (See Rigdonites, Strangites, the Community of Christ, Samuel Brannon, etc.)
Is it less culty today than in Brigham’s times? Yes. But in the MTC, missionaries are trained to obey without thinking. Obedience is the first principle of heaven. I believe that the leaders would love it to be more of a cult, with obedience (to them) being the driving principle, but decades of legal blowback and watchful voices like mine have helped temper their desires.
In other words, you’re right, it is less of a cult than it could be, but mostly because of people like me, and not because the leaders wouldn’t go there if they had opportunity.
I agree, Mithryn, but a cult is a cult is a cult. There’s a book called Kingdom of the Cults, in which the LDS Org is listed. Written by Dr. Walter Martin. You’re probably heard of it.
My beloved sister has been a Mormon 45 years and our relationship has been held (by her) to the most shallow level of relationships. The only thing she will talk about with me is her latest quilt pattern, or her physical problems, which are many.
I love her immensely, but the one time I sent her an excellent link to a video that proved the Book of Abraham was false, she accused me of propagandizing her. I sent the link in LOVE, not for any other reason, yet I was attacked for it and I’m certain she didn’t bother to watch it.
I’m at a loss and my heart is broken.
“The Glory of God is Intelligence.”
Just don’t try to use it.
An intelligence organization that fears intelligence?
Historically, not awesome.
Lie #7 doesn’t seem to jive with what I was taught growing up or shared as a missionary. Do you have a citation to go along with that claim? To my knowledge Outer Darkness is supposedly reserved for those who had received personal witness to the divinity of Jesus Christ e.i. had seen him and knew with certainty that he was the Christ.
Also, I was under the impression only priesthood holders could go there. So much folk mormonism is spread that my version of doctrine may be just as unfounded.
It’s all make believe anyways, I just haven’t heard your version of this in the church.
You’re not the only person to ask. As such, I’ll do a whole post about it.
This post is for you:
https://exploringmormonism.com/who-goes-to-outer-darkness-a-handy-guide/
Very well thought-out. Definitely some of those uncomfortable truths that we would have liked to be able to admit earlier, but only are able to really see when we step away from the forest a little bit.
To be fair, there isn’t much consensus on what it takes to be sent to outer darkness. I had a seminary teacher that believed even Judas wasn’t going to be sent there. The rest of the post is nails though, really really good points, thanks for sharing.
Here is my guide on who is going to Outer Darkness: https://exploringmormonism.com/who-goes-to-outer-darkness-a-handy-guide/
To address this issue.
Consensus? Read God’s Word, the Bible. There’s PLENTY of “consensus” in it about what it takes! There is ONLY one way to heaven – just ONE. Jesus said, “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, NO ONE goes to the Father but by Me.”
There you go, ONE WAY, the REAL Jesus of the Bible, not a counterfeit one that Joseph Smith conjured up. 🙂
??????
I wish I was brave enough to share this on my FB wall!
Keep up the good work & thank you!
Love this and your response to the person telling you to leave the church alone.
For #7 what about the doctrine/idea/belief that the “truly righteous” parents will somehow save their apostate children and drag them to heaven whether they like it or not?
Here’s the guide to who goes to outer darkness: https://exploringmormonism.com/who-goes-to-outer-darkness-a-handy-guide/
I hope it answers your question… or doesn’t
Just when I think things can’t get any weirder, you go and do that. It definitely does and does not answer my question simultaneously.
With the sons of perdition being only men, according to some, I’m just imagining this massive orgy of men, complete with disco music, flashing lights, roller skates, and all the works as they rock their way out of heaven.
No flashing lights – It’s “Outer Darkness” after all.
Great post (as was your follow up post in outer darkness). My mother, although very loving in her response to my apostasy, believes I am going to outer darkness. She is legitimately concerned for my soul. I think there are many of her generation who believe that.
I would add to #5 that celestial polygamy is alive and well as current doctrine. That’s never changed. If you are a woman in the Mormon afterlife, you will share your husband with any other women he’s “sealed” to and spend your eternity pumping out spirit babies together. Enjoy.
Since we’re talking about deceptions here, “Exploring Mormonism” seems to be practicing a form of deception. A more appropriate name would be “Denouncing Mormonism.” Why not be upfront with your purpose and intent instead of posing as an unbiased source of accurate information? It seems to me that your sole objective in your “explorations” is to denounce, criticize, castigate, and destroy the Mormon church. So why not be honest about it in the title of your website?
I got the site back when I was still on the fence. I have an “About me” page where I’m up front about my position. I updated it as by beliefs changed.
But here is the thing, we can “Explore Mormonism” without believing it. I can, as a former member, point out things that confused me as a member, investigate details like “Who goes to outer darkness”; and so forth.
I do Explore it, but I don’t put forward false claims; and that seems to force me into the “Anti” category in your mind. Please consider why that is.
The best way to deal with relgion is humor. Here’s my attempt: https://goo.gl/ktXhwI
I spent a year in the army sharing an office with a master sergeant who also was a Mormon “bishop.” His 9-to-5 job rarely took more than a couple of hours out of his day and the rest of his time he spent conducting church business — primarily recruiting — on the office telephone.
We were in an infantry division, and the infantry grunts tend to spend weeks and months on end either in field exercises or deployed elsewhere. So those soldiers who were married tended to spend a considerable time away from their spouses and family.
Whenever a unit would deploy (which would be common knowledge on post), the bishop would call around to the wives in his congregation whose husbands served in the deploying units to ask them to identify other women whose husbands also had deployed but who weren’t members of the Mormon church. Then he would call these other women and invite them to a church social gathering, making certain to mention that it was not a religious gathering, just a familial event.
These women in general would be young and un-worldly, and for many it was their first time from home. Most are finding the army environment alien and a little unsettling, and their husbands being gone so much left them feeling lonely and isolated, so many are eager to find a support group …ANY support group. And if the young wife committed to accept the bishop’s invitation, his next telephone call was to at least two of his women congregants to assign them to make sure this woman was warmly received at the event.
So what he’s doing is identifying vulnerable women, targeting them, luring them to a Mormon gathering with promises of companionship but at which she will be tag-teamed by multiple designated recruiting specialists. He’s casting a dazzling-colored fishing lure her way, but with hidden razor-sharp hooks.
But eventually the infantry husband comes home. And if the wife has taken the bait, he won’t be home long before she starts needling him to let the bishop come talk to him about the church.
The man has spent the last month sleeping in a mud hole and feasting on freeze-dried food. If not worse. He’s physically and mentally exhausted, he knows it’s only weeks until he goes back to the same mud hole, and the last thing he wants is conflict in his home when he’s counting on relaxation and “down time,” so finally he gives in. And then the bishop comes to visit.
The morning after the visit, late enough that he can be sure the husband has left home for the day, the bishop calls the wife once again. They chat a bit and eventually the conversation turns to the previous evening’s visit. He tells her he enjoyed the evening he thanks her for the hospitality. Then he asks her if once he had left, if she and husband spoke between themselves about the bishop’s sales pitch. To which the answer always is “Yes,” because that’s part of what she’s been coached to do.
Then comes the truly chilling bit: “Would you mind sharing with me what his thoughts were?”
Always that exact same phrase. Chilling because the bishop is tweaking the wife’s sense of gratitude to the bishop, figurehead of the support group that has relieved her from her loneliness and isolation, effectively reducing her to collecting intelligence against her husband and relaying it to the Mormons.
It’s a very sophisticated recruitment campaign. And equally insidious.
Growing up I knew a lot of members whose fathers were in the military. I always wondered how a peace-loving organization like ours could have so many military families.
Well, I learned we weren’t so peace loving, but this is an interesting aspect. Thank you for sharing.
“Next, ask them to get out of politics. How many bills did they impact this session? Medical Marijuana, alcohol during an R-Rated movie at Brewvies, Porn as Health Crisis. Once the Church stops attacking me via legislation we can talk about it”
This was my favorite part since the thing I get told the absolute most is why can’t I leave the church alone.
Gosh, I don’t know, maybe because it impacts my life on a daily basis via legislation. Also, because virtually every member of my family is a member including many too young to do much about it at this point.
#3 – some other examples:
1) Missionaries are isolated from their families for 18-24 months only allowed to call home twice a year. It’s hard to find any other organization anywhere with such an anti-family policy.
2) There are a lot more examples of it being a control mechanism. A kid doesn’t get to be baptized or ordained by his dad where the other kids do – great plan – social pressure on the kids and make them ashamed of their parents. Then theirs the ultimate – excluding from weddings.
3) The lds church doesn’t actually teach “forever families” it teaches “forever partial and fractured families.” There is a really good chance that someone in your immediate family – parents, siblings, spouse, children isn’t going to make it to the Celestial Kingdom. And that means they aren’t sealed in your eternal family. Most religions or at least religious people implicitly believe families continue in the afterlife. The Mormon religion actually has an extremely pessimistic viewpoint that most families have people missing. This creates guilt and fear that you have to worry about not only getting you but your whole family to the Celestial Kingdom. And, oh yea, if you aren’t into the church you get the added guilt that you are breaking your Mormon loved ones heart because they are losing you for all eternity.
4) It’s not uncommon for local church leaders to spend a significant amount of time at church instead of with their family. Many callings require a 10 hour day on Sunday as well as an additional weeknight or two each week. Time of work gets spent going to youth camps or other activities instead of with family.
This is a great post, thanks.
I found the video on the flood interesting, but it has a major problem. How do you know the height of the tallest mountain prior to the flood? The whole theory rest upon the current height of Mt. Everest without taking into consideration that the tallest mountains were created after the flood by rapid continental drift.
You are correct. It is a problem.
However as Everest is growing slowly , I think it is assumed that the bias is probably in the favor of the analysis, and that it is small. We don’t have to be exact; if we’re off by 20% of the total, it’s still a valid analysis because it’s just an illustration of how difficult a world wide flood would be.
I am LDS and I share the gospel with my friends out of love. If they aren’t interested they remain my friends. In fact, I have neighbors that aren’t interested, but I am still going to invite them over for Family Home Evening because I believe that it is a great program for them to do with their kids to help the kids learn their parents’ beliefs. They are Catholic and I am fine with sharing whatever pieces of the gospel they are willing to accept, even if they don’t join the church. I believe that whatever they take will do them good. I have also learned things from them that have done me good. I do not have some evil plot to force them to do anything or to brainwash them. I just want them and the kids to be happy and I believe that what I have will help them to be happy. My friends and the others in the church are the same way.
>My friends and the others in the church are the same way.
I’m really impressed if you’re just sharing family home evening lessons with no marketing efforts. That’s awesome. Honestly, I love that.
However, when you push that to the church as a whole, let me step in. No, ma’am, you’ve lied. You don’t know what most the members in the church are doing; and what you are doing is NOT the church. The church Actually has an article on using Family Home Evening as a tool published in 2005:
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2005/06/family-home-evening-as-a-missionary-tool?lang=eng
Note that in this guide it says to do EXACTLY what you said, to publicly deny it is a missionary tool; but then it gives examples of using it as a missionary tool. Yes there is one labelled “not to convert”; but the focus is on retention, bringing back lost members (which are under my other lies) and missionary experiences.
This concept was repeated with Family History in 2000:
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2000/10/using-family-history-as-a-missionary-tool?lang=eng
Family home evening as seen as missionary preparation:
https://www.lds.org/manual/family-home-evening-resource-book/lesson-ideas/mission-preparation?lang=eng
The Missionary Guide, Preach My Gospel, says to use Family Home Evening to convert, and to use the Missionary guide as a family home evening guide:
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2007/10/preach-my-gospel-the-unifying-tool-between-members-and-missionaries?lang=eng&_r=1
It’s not about forcing or brainwashing, but the message of the church on just the topic you presented; is that this program of family home evening is encouraged to be a missionary tool.
My family saw it that way when I was growing up, and there are several lessons and tools (like Family History) that are also expected to be leveraged by the official manuals.
Kudos to you for not abusing invitations as missionary tools… but bad on you for lying about the intent of the religion which is only too obvious if one has 5 minutes, google and the willingness to verify.
Truth is decerned through the influence of the Holy Ghost. I can only decern full truth when I have the influence of the Holy Ghost. That goes for Mormons and Non- Mormons alike. Contention is not of God, never has been and never will be. Satan is the father of all lies and all half truths. When a person shares their truth, that is what it is, their truth, but it may not be the FULL truth. I am blessed to live in a country where I can share my truth. God is love. Always has been and always will be. I have Mormon, Jewish, Catholic, etc. friends who are amazing. When I see a person, I see my brother or my sister. Let us all remember where we came from. We are all God’s children. None of us are enemies. Only one being wants us to believe we are and that is Satan. He laughs when we contend one with another. I won’t take his bait, and I invite anyone who would like to join in that perspective to do the same. Let us all respect other’s opinions and let people practice their own religion. After all, that is another privilege we have in this country. Their are many half truths and faulty conclusions made in many posts on this site, but since people can think as they like, I won’t criticize. There are great people in many different religions. There are many great truth loving people in the LDS church who love to serve their fellow man and do things for the right reasons. There are also some who are not. Let us not pretend other religions have similar circumstances. If we are going to hold a microscope to anyone or any religion let’s expect that one way or another the same will be done to us.
I did a lot of typos. Sorry about that. Wish I could edit.
typos are the bain of my existance
I am a progressive deist. I believe God is evil.
Satan is His puppet to blame things on. You’ve made a lot of conjecture here. I’d love to see evidence backing it up.
“We are all God’s children.”
Other than the Jews, God’s chosen people, The only children God has are those “born-again” into His family. Not everyone is a child of God, but anyone “can become” a child of God by repenting of their past idolatrist life, turning to God, and believing in the Gospel, which is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, which is something the Mormonchurchcannot and will not believe in.
Those that name the name of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior must believe that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God.
That is an interesting perspective on God. But I can see how someone would feel that way. Are you really seeking truth? Cause if you are, you will find it. Knowledge is amazing to acquire and the journey is filled at times with so much work and delayed rewards. Oh and Satan is nobody’s puppet. No one is, we all have choice. No one has the right to take that away. Not even God does that. He has laws he abides by. He is the only being who does not lie. But he has boundaries. He gives us guidelines to live by because he won’t raise spoiled Narssasitic children. But we humans can be dumb and submit our will as in the case of addictions. But in the end we have it us and with the grace of God to win it back. So many questions won’t be answered in this life time. I choose to walk by faith and love for my fellow man. The best to you.
After researching the Mormon “religion” I now understand why they were ran out of Missouri. I have to say in my many years of living I have never read such complete garbage.
That is all wrong. No one does get paid,our prophet does not get paid. And I don’t appreciate it when someone goes out telling lies about our church when they know nothing about it. Have you gone do the LDS church? And missionaries just go to teach you so you can learn how little parts of every religion goes into ours. Please stop telling lies about my church. Because I know its true.
They do get paid. They lied to you. I”m sorry to be the barer of bad news, but they do get paid a paycheck.
I don’t tell lies. Tell you what, you show me evidence they don’t get paid, or that the evidence provided is false and I’ll apologize and retract everything publicly.
After I joined the Church I served as a missionary in Chile and was told to tell investigators that Church leaders are not paid, but rather receive a small stipend to meet their families’ needs. Imagine my surprise to discover they are paid an estimated salary of $128,000/yr. That puts them in the top 8% of wage earners in the U.S. and top 1% worldwide and over a 10 year period that means they are paid $1.28 million dollars in salary.
If the Lord does not approve of this then it’s an issue between Him and them. But it doesn’t change the fact that this is His restored church on the earth. Men may fall short, but Jesus does not fail.
Follow Jesus, my friend… follow Jesus.
>Follow Jesus, my friend… follow Jesus.
It is incumbent on you to prove that Jesus is here. I have a code set up with Him. He has accepted this code. If you are talking to Jesus, simply ask him what my code is, and I will do whatever you say because you are communicating with Jesus.
If you are not able to receive the code, then you are not talking to the same Jesus I am, and you are misled. Jesus, being all knowing, should have a trivial effort in knowing my code
You are incorrect, there are many ‘paid’ position in the church.
Wowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowoowowowowowowowowowowowow
Excellent post. I’m dealing with many of these issues as well..
As one who grew up as mormon, it is “my testament” that every point stated here is dead on.
I appreciate your sharing this. I really hope that Mormonism hasn’t tainted your view of real Christianity. Another lie I hear is that Mormons are Christians. Mormons are not Christians! Contrary to the Book of Mormon, the Bible has tons of historical and scientific evidence. One of the best websites to explore science and faith is reasons.org. I agree that the flood was not world wide and so do many other Christians.
Mormons believe in god and Jesus, therefore, we are Christians.
In that case, the Devil is also a Christian, and the FLDS are LDS.
Hello,
The president ,counselors and seventies along with apostles get paid just like the mission and temple president.
Who doesn’t get paid? Bishops.stake presidente and their counselors.
Get accurate information.
I’ve just accidentally stumbled across this page and all I can think is ‘WOW…on point!’
I married a return missionary. Not even he could tell the truth, and partook in some VERY unsavoury experiences in life. Forgiveness came and went til forgiveness was no longer an option for me. The irony of families being ‘forever’ whilst he doesn’t acknowledge nor maintain the two he left with me but continues to breed will forever disgust and haunt me. And I moved away from the church primarily for this reason.
What bewilders me most is that he can keep working with and for the church (as well as his new wife who travels the same deceptive path) whilst they can continue their facade of lies and deceit and no-one….I mean NO-ONE bats an eyelid.
All I hold onto is the hope that judgement day does exist. And I also hope I get to hear what excuses/lies come out next. At this point my testament is…life is much more humble and honest without church. A Christian I am…but I sheep I am not.
It’s still the Savior’s restored Church and we follow Him, not man.
I love all of you even though you’re opinions are guided with negativity
What a bizarre comment. The LDS church believes the world is ending and getting worse all the time. Should we measure truth by negative statements, the LDS church would be far below this blog.
I would say to Mithryn (at least you think you would have the guts to use your real name) that this sounds much like other anti-Mormon babblings I have heard. It’s not going to take you very far.
Yes, some general authorities receive a paycheck although probably for less dollars than they could be making out of the church. Yes, members want to introduce friends and neighbors to the gospel (is it hard to believe that they are heeding Christ’s commandment of doing missionary work?), the thing about going to hell is rather stupid because you probably believe Mormons are going to hell. God will be the judge of those who didn’t accept the gospel in this life. There are plenty of good people out there and I doubt their afterlife is going to be as gloomy as what the “spirit prison” term may sound.
I believe Mormons embrace higher learning. Church leaders are not perfect, as in the case of blacks and the priesthood. They admitted they got it wrong but thought they were heeding God’s will. Do you recognize that not everyone was allowed to have the priesthood in Old Testament times?
So anyway, Mithryn, gloat in your superior intellect if you want, but it’s not going to take you far.
I don’t think I gloat, but I do reveal. Please realize that the leaders say over and over “There is no paid clergy in the church” while they are accepting a paycheck. That is a lie. Consult your scriptures for what Jesus thinks about liars and hypocrites.
I think you’ll find that this website is almost entirely sourced from LDS Sources (they keep moving things which is why links break). That is the difference from other “Anti-mormon” sites, this is all pro-mormon information that still illustrates the religion is clearly not true.
I would like to propose a couple of changes:
#5 about polygamy. Even though polygamy was stopped when it did in the sense of the practice, morally and theologically it hasn’t and from their point of view it still is practiced today but not as you may expect. I will explain:
A man and a woman get married for all eternity in the temple. At some point the wife dies, say in an accident. They are still married for the church and not till death do them part.
So the man runs into another woman and falls in love. So they get married in the temple for all eternity also. So what happens to his first marriage? Nothing. As long as they stay faithful he will have two wives in the afterlife.
So technically they do not practice polygamy in this earthly existence but polygamy is still very much an accepted doctrine and an eternal one at that.
#7 About hell and heaven. Indeed they do not believe in hell as other christians do. They actually describe hell as being cut off from the presence of god. So outer darkness is for satan and his willful followers who choose against god even when standing at the last judgment. So they expect very few people to be cut off.
For the rest, there is the celestial, terrestrial and telestial kingdoms. God resides in the celestial sphere and that is where you would reside with him and his wife (or wives) as one big happy family. Just make sure you have a celestial marriage or two, do all the secret handshakes etc. The other two are lesser heavens where they are simply not as close to god but still relatively happy. As long as you basically didn’t completely reject god in his face. Even Hitler is reported to be Telestial Kingdom material if he humbles himself before god (and means it).
So yes, your choice in a lifetime of not even 100 years, which is but a moment against eternity will still determine your fate for all eternity. Also with the mormons. Isn’t christianity beautiful…
A+ thanks for clarifying the smiteful smite mind.
Mormon’s are just like other religions. Mormon missionaries are doing the same things other missionaries are doing. SMITE YOU!!!
Interesting remark that Mormons are just like other religions. Does that also include the religion of naturalism and how they teach that evolution is fact? You do know that the dogma of evolution has its own “scripture” it’s own “prophets” and it’s own “missionaries” and “preachers” don’t you?
What really made me laugh about this entire article is how the author went from believing one false religion to another. One false prophet to another. And what we even more hilarious is that he touched on that there is no possible way Noah’s flood was true. Yet there is ample science indicating the probability is reasonable to assume.
“Yet there is ample science indicating the probability is reasonable to assume.”
Someone failed geology.
Before 2014 and the thirteen pragmatically written essays that were placed on the LDS.org website to apologetically disclose to the non-Mormon public as canon Mormon theology, doctrine, and history what the LDS Church had been calling prophetic opinion and speculation for over 160 years, the real theology of Mormonism had been hidden from Christians by Mormon full-time missionaries in their standardized five-to-six discussion spiel designed to persuade Christians that Mormonism is Christian. The thirteen essays concern the theological issues that were indignantly broached by Swedish Mormons in 2010, when they inadvertently discovered on the Internet the true facts about Mormon theology, doctrine, and history about which they had never been told by Mormon Church authorities. These true facts about Mormonism had disturbed the Swedish Mormons so greatly that a “Swedish rescue” was attempted by Mormon Church Headquarters in Salt Lake City, which did not prove as successful as was intended. For this reason, for liability purposes, the thirteen apologetic essays were written and published in order for the LDS Church to assert that they are “not hiding anything from the Christian public.”
Yet, the Mormon hierarchy are attempting to pull the wool over the eyes of reasonable Christians by insisting that Mormonism is as biblical and Christian as the theology practiced by Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, and evangelical Christians. You see, the Book of Mormon (BOM) is devoid of the polytheistic Mormon theology and the terminology of polytheistic Mormonism that came into being around 1838, when the Book of Abraham and the plurality of gods, with a capital G, was introduced to Mormonism by Joseph Smith, Jr. For the BOM is basically as Trinitarian and monotheistic as the “Methodist Discipline” developed by John Wesley. And the BOM is used very deliberately by Mormon full-time missionaries, as systemically planned by the Mormon general authorities in Salt Lake City, Utah, to persuade lukewarm Christians during the five-discussion presentation routinely given by full-time Mormon missionaries to investigators to Mormonism that Mormon theology is Christian. Christian Mormon converts who are duped into believing that Mormonism is Christian usually spend between 2-to-five years before they become aware of the real theology of Mormonism, and, either, decide to leave Mormonism and return to Christianity, or to stay in Mormonism and accept the theology and culture, or to resign from Mormonism and leave religion altogether for atheism.
The best approach to stopping the spread of Mormonism, or the conversion rate of Christians to Mormons by the Mormonism missionary program, is to disseminate a smoking gun proof that Mormonism is not Christian, but as pagan as Greek mythology. I believe that this smoking gun is the last published 20th Century veneration of Mormon polytheism and what is described therein as the ultimate destiny of all worthy Mormon elders, to become as great as the Mormon father-god, with a capital G, by becoming each and every one of those worthy elders, father-gods, with a capital G. This smoking gun 20th Century proof is “Lesson 21-Man May Become like God,” from the 39-lesson official LDS Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, “Search These Commandments,” which was proclaimed with the study guide by the First Presidency of Mormon Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, as canon Mormon scripture and commandments. “Lesson 21” may be perused using the following link: http://www.richkelsey.org/lesson21.html Any Christian that reads “Lesson 21-Man May Become Like God” may realize within a half-hour reading that Mormonism is as far from being biblical and Christian as hell is from heaven, and will know that when a Mormon associate invites him, or her, to learn about Mormonism from the full-time missionaries, it is time to tell that associate to go jump in the lake. The process involved in convincing a true-blue Mormon that Mormonism is pagan and not Christian is much more difficult and involved than convincing a Christian that Mormonism is not Christian. The LDS.org essays that I mention earlier in this writing may be perused using the following link: https://mormonessays.com/
In other words,
If Mithryn thinks homosexuals are “normal” then he/she needs to get h/er/is buns checked. Why do you think in Chemistry, for example, their are “isomers” whose activity is “different” from a normal molecule. And what does chemistry call them? Sis and Trans, Sin and Anti. In other words Sis(sy) and Trans(sexual), Sin(ful) and Anti(christ)
This comment is so woefully bad at presenting science that I think it’s a great example if ignorance and so it is approved.
if mormon missionaries are really trying to “sell” their religion with their sales tactics and all that, what do they have to gain from it? i mean they don’t get any reward, monetary or otherwise… what’s in it for them? i’ve encountered many over the years and they seem very sincere. even some of our family friends are mormons and they seem to have good intentions, even if they do want us to convert.
sorry i seem to be a bit late to the game but i would really like your opinion on this; you seem very informed and unbiased compared to some other people out there who just want to rant about the mormons
Social pressure. Any dating within the social system is entirely dependent upon “returning with honor”. Successful Mission service is droned into children’s minds from the age of 2-3 onward.
Sources within the church say that the intent is to convert the person going on the mission. Estimations place each mission-goer at about $320,000 in lifetime value for the church.
So very much a profitable social-pressure mechanism for the corporation that accepts the tithing dollars.
its just that i dont understand how they say you had prelife name from heaven before you come to earth and then they pick one of the computer depending what day you go in the temple. that is a big fat LIE i am sure.I resent them from playing with my life and wasting my time.when i could have been happier. not being abused by them and thier ideas.,apparently i was told i was in love with lucifer in the preexistance meaning heaven.and that i had to settle for someone else to chose and became a required polygamist in the eternity with someone else.what kind of hell have i been living in .the mormons are upfront and completely honest.they will get what they give out by those they have hurt. i had to pay tithing wich meant i never received help just paid for it.because thats the criteria.i never got the suport i needed to suport myself and my child and things fell apart. they just made my life a living hell, with thier lies and abuse
sorry i meant to say the mormons are not upfront and completely honest.
I was an active, faithful, temple-attending Mormon for twenty-two years…and I can say, without a doubt, that Mormonism is mental slavery.
Joseph Smith was a con man and the gods that he invented are as nonexistent as Zeus or Apollo or Thor. The Book of Mormon is fiction and the Mormon Church is a cult.
I resigned back in 2014 after learning the truth about Mormonism and I haven’t lost a single minute of sleep wondering if I made the right decision….
Mormonism is a HUGE PILE of bullshit — just like every other religion on the planet. This is my testimony. Amen.
You literally know absolutely nothing about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
Actually, none of what you said is true. I’ve never said even one of these things that are lies and the other things you are just twisting and bending them to your will to make our church look bad.
If you have Christian friends who are being induced by Mormon neighbors, co-workers, or those Mormons they regard as friends, to meet the Mormon full-time missionaries, all you have to is get them to read the official declaration of Mormon polytheistic theology published by the LDS Church as the last official written veneration of Joseph Smith, Jr.’s 1844 King Follett Discourse and Mormon prophet Lorenzo Snow’s refinement of the theology in the late 1890s, “Lesson 21-Man May Become Like God,” which was the 21st lesson in the 1984 LDS Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, “Search These Commandments.”
By reading this heresy of Christianity, any rational Christian will realize within a half-hour that Mormon theology and doctrine are as far from being the Gospel of Jesus as heaven is from hell. Please use the following hyperlink to access “Lesson 21” on the Internet, https://www.richkelsey.org/lesson21.html or contact me at the following email address and I will send you a PDF copy of “Lesson 21” to download and print-out. nrnowlin@yahoo.com
I just went to this church for the first time. I was dating a gal who was a member. Well folks she was recruited when she did time in jail. Next she has tats and nose ring. But she in there. She finds me asks me out and tries to recruit me. Not going to happen. She said how about marriage I said how about a contract about my money. You leave with what you came with? Well she is gone. So watch out they are using females to get new members.
I would like to get in contact with the writer of this article. not for attacking but for help to get away from the mormons!!! grew up in it, hate it now and wish it could be illegal to be ran!!! lies, cult hands down,
Hello there, You’ve done a fantastic job. I’ll definitely digg it and personally recommend to my friends.
I am confident they’ll be benefited from this website.
1. Missionaries are there to share a message and it’s up to the listener if they want to convert. 2.True some are paid but as a member I’ve known that for a long time, it’s not a secret just not advertised. Some callings require this, and there’s good reasons why. 3. Anything that conflicts with the doctrine of Heavenly Father cannot be accepted. However that doesn’t mean we shun family members or friends who think differently. Jesus in the scriptures set the example on this one and for the most part the saints follow this. We are not perfect yet we strive for this. 4.There’s was a time when the gospel was not afforded to the Gentile in the scriptures.5.I’m not sure why after polygamy was ended that an established family should be broken up or why that is a lie?6.People married in the past at younger ages, this is true but to marry at a very young age is not doctrine.7.There’s is limited official doctrine on hell. Are there misconceptions on this? Yes. Not everything a member of our faith may think or say is official doctrine.8.We do invite often, if you listen to enough talks by the Apostles and leaders of our faith you will know this to be true. I have friends that are Catholic and my family is mostly Catholic and I should not attend a quinceanera for fear of being converted? 9.Members of our faith are encouraged to learn, there is much information out there and also a lot which is incomplete, so to say science and faith are in conflict is not true.10.
1. Missionaries are trained on how to exploit emotional feelings and when people are vulnerable at the Mission training center. Saying “it is up to the listener” is disingenuous. They have quotas, expectations and receive praise for conversions.
2. The church claims to have a “lay ministry” and even the top leaders have said “no one is paid in the church”. You may have known some are paid, but by admitting this, you are admitting the church openly lies. that is the point. If they said “Top leaders are paid” I think this post wouldn’t even exist. OF COURSE THEY ARE PAID.
3. The Book of Mormon states that church leaders should not be paid. Ergo, by your own point, the LDS church is in conflict with doctrine. Ergo it makes sense not to Accept the religion.
4. I think you’re referring to the New Testament here.
5. Because polygamy continued into the 1960s where a man could be legitimately married to two women and sit in the same pew each Sunday with both
6. And yet super-young marriages are very common among church leadership. Joseph, Wilford, Brigham, Lorenzo, all married teens
7. You claim that you have direct revelation, but don’t clarify the details. That is frustrating.
8. The religion is predominantly about conversion though. If one goes to mass, 90% of the time it is not about converting your neighbors. However, Sacrament Meeting, week after week, conversion of neighbors is brought up. That is a huge difference.
9. Except that key doctrines of the Mormonism ARE in direct conflict. DNA proves that the Native Americans are not Lamanites to such an extent that they changed the introduction to the book. Sheep in the new world are non-domesticated and cannot be due to a DNA difference with old-world sheep, so Ammon’s story cannot be real. There are literally hundreds of contradictions with science in just the Book of Mormon alone.