Inasmuch as it has come to our attention that Julie Rowe has declared that she has received revelation and inspiration for the preparation of the end of times let us respond with a solid voice that she is not genuinely gifted with supernatural powers of foresight.
The tendency of any group, when a prophecy fails, is to become more entrenched in belief. This has been true of individuals who believed aliens were going to pick them up, of individuals who believed that Gold was going to be recalled and they should invest in a mine that has no gold in it, of people who believed in a woman whose daughter has confirmed she was certifiably crazy and not translated.
As such we write this statement of disbelief to counter the entrenching and to illustrated that the non-believer is, in fact, more prophetic that the believer in Julie Rowe. She has stated several verifiable positions on the future all of which believers are likely to claim occurred by “moving the goalposts” or claiming that minor events fulfilled what were major claims by Ms. Rowe.
We claim the following will not happen as Ms. Rowe claimed it would happen in Rexberg, Idaho on July 25, 2015
- We Claim that individuals will not be healed 100%. In fact we claim that no amputee has been healed and that will continue into the foreseeable future without medical science and prosthetic limbs (Which are hardly being healed 100%)
- We claim that no one will see people raised from the dead. This claim is verifiable and would instantly be news on every news network if verified. CPR and other techniques verified through science are not what was discussed here, but priesthood/divine power and anyone recovering from death through any other technique should not be seen as a successful measure
- We claim that déjà vu is NOT “us seeing these things before”. If that were true we would expect children (closer to heaven and more innocent) to experience it more, and teenagers, in their rebellious stage, to experience it less often. Instead the opposite is true.
- We clearly state that There are not “bonds, curses, chains being broken like Cain that are being broken and will be broken until final battle when we will be healed.” Um. wait, what does that even mean? When did Cain get bonds broken?
- We claim there will not be an economic disaster in September. Indeed, the Federal Reserve has all but stated they will raise interest rates in September, and that will impact the stock market, but probably less than the Greek debt situation or the Chinese Stock Market close did in July. As such we think that the impact in September will be a failed prophesy (or why didn’t God tell her about the bigger impact 2 months previous). We say this to illustrate that a sound financial understanding is a better market predictor than prophesy
- We sustain that no “earth shattering on the Wasatch front” will occur from September to October of 2015. Indeed, there may be an earthquake, but the impact to humans/size will not be sufficient to warrant a prediction and dozens of earthquakes of a similar impact will be in the record as Seismic activity is constantly happening at a depth that does not impact humans.
- We state clearly that “foreign troops will NOT hit soil in LA” in any kind of timeframe or explanation that would link it to the September-October events previously stated, which were implied in Ms. Rowe’s talk. We know that the believer will be tempted to find ANY boots on the ground from ANY country as evidence of this being fulfilled, be we declare with solemn voice that Ms. Rowe implied an invasion clearly with her words and we are certain no invasion is immediately forthcoming.
- We firmly state that Denver is not going to be the next capital of the United States. If any city becomes another capital, regardless of world events, Ms. Rowe’s claims are defeated. We know the temptation for the believer is to push this “Capital switch” into the future as some event, but we seriously state that there will be several events more relevant to listeners that are not foreseen (Like 9/11) than a capital switch and call into question any revelation that misses such key events and yet specifically states such a thing so far into the future that believers are relatively unaffected by it.
- We firmly state that there are not “more than 4 translated beings on the earth right now.” We ask anyone who believes this to produce verifiable evidence of any translated being. We question the ineffectiveness of translated beings at any of the following: Protecting the prophet from Mark Hoffman’s bombs, Informing the prophet about Mark Hoffman’s deception, Protecting Joseph Smith in Carthage Jail, Coming to Brigham Young’s aid during the Utah War, Helping to talk down the Morresite rebellion, Helping to find Elizabeth Smart who was being raped by a self-proclaimed prophet in between riding around downtown Salt Lake City, etc. We declare that any Translated beings who are so perfect, and yet so ineffectual at influencing current events should not be worth mentioning.
- We confidently state that theire will be no “Earth quake will split the country down the middle like parting of Red Sea to keep enemies from getting to Zion”. Let this also not be put forward so far into the future as to be irrelevant while other more critical events are missed.
- We state with conviction that the recent ruling regarding gender attraction (That is to say, Gay Marriage) will not be a turning point. It will be a non-issue as far as the majority of the country, and seen as old bigotry by the next generation. Indeed, we prophesy that within 10 years a married gay man will bless the sacrament at an LDS ward.
- We question the claim “A lot of children will be orphaned.” We believe that it is unlikely that Orphan rates will climb above say, that during pioneer times, which would be a standard for “a lot”. We state that orphan rates will not climb above those in Syria for the Unted States in the next 10 years.
- We feel comfortable stating that electricity is here to stay and that it will not fail us. The plethora and wealth of technology may not always continue as we currently enjoy; but this is not the same as stating that electricity will fail. We doubt that greatly.
- We demand that the word “plague” is too vague and too easily filled by a plethora of possibilities to be called a “win” for any prophet. The standard for validation must be higher than “Someone, somewhere gets sick”.
- We also reject the further claims made in Seattle in January 2015
- Dragons are not literal creatures. None will be released.
- Weapons are not crafted spiritually (such as arrows), or else Satan would have released a spiritual nuclear event wiping out spiritual beings.
- The United States will not be a 3rd world country any time soon
- Seattle will not be a “hot spot” for man-made disasters. Individuals will find other areas (such as Detroit) that have far more man-made disaster per year than Seattle. (Other cities mentioned that will have massive destruction are NYC, Chicago, Los Angeles, and San Francisco)
- We clearly state that the following Foreign troops: Russians, Chinese, North Koreans, mass fleets of Russians will NOT come through Alaska, Canada, and the Pacific Northwest.
- Individuals in Washington will not arrive to Idaho in rags
- Many missiles will not be launched launched at us, and we laugh at the idea that many of them will be divinely redirected. We believe that the missile systems operators will find man-made events if any missiles misfire (which is a possibility).
- We firmly state that there will be no literal forcefield deflecting missiles.
False belief is not harmless. It was devastating for those who believed a comet would signal the end times or that they should follow a prophet no matter what, or that one should sell one’s property in preparation for the end of the world. We ask that general authorities, Stake leaders and bishops warn members against false prophets and that while people who taught love such as John Dehlin were excommunicated, apocalyptic end-of-the-world false prophets should be at least treated to a similar disciplinary council.
The list of failed prophesies of the end of the world is long and we ask individuals ot consider Ms. Rowe’s voice as one more in the long list of those who drive an empty frenzy, rather than a true voice of warning.
If the Russians were to invade, wouldn’t Alaska be the obvious choice, or maybe Seattle?
Why Los Angeles? Because of Hollywood?
Los Angeles because it is a ‘godless den of liberal heathens’, and the destruction of what are viewed as bastions of ‘the left’ (NY, SF, LA, Chicago, etc) is an immediately enticing prospect to the sort of ultra-conservative prepper that frequently buys into ‘end of the world’ prophecies again and again.
Promise the places they fear and hate will get the shaft and you’re simultaneously appealing to their hatreds and prejudices AND their self righteousness.
Mix in the cultured persecution complex of the church, and you’ve got yourself a movement.
Maybe Oaks and Turley shouldn’t have worried about Snuffer so much and tried to shut this lady up instead. Given that they’re NOT doing anything, when she’s a more immediate danger to the well being of members, says a lot. A lot of nothing good.
Please read the excellent review of Julie Rowe’s first book, “A Greater Tomorrow” using the following link:
http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=37001
The most amazing part of this review is that for several years Julie Rowe wrote about her dreams on a website called “Avow” and said nothing about having a NDE. I have a sister who claims that Julie Rowe’s books are wonderful and it is difficult seeing her being so deceived. I wrote to her citing several LDS presidents cautioning us about how all revelation must be approved by THE prophet of the Church prior to publication, but she tells me that Julie received permission from the “other side.” Thank you for the article on this website.
We shouldn’t be too hasty, right. Maybe she had the NDE but it was too sacred to share, so she revised the story 3 or 4 times during different tellings… no wait, that was Joseph Smith.
*cough*
I’m old enough to remember the early days of Ron and Dan Lafferty. They started out believing that they were being given vision and insight from beyond the veil to bless the lives of those here. It didn’t end well.
Let’s stop to be quick to raise the Hammer of Zeus, against our sister Julie R. Really, do we delight in imitating the 11 brothers of Joseph the “DREAMER”? Remember, that this eleven brothers, who laughed at him, and despised him because of his dreams, were brought by the hand of God slowly but surely, to leak the dust of his feet several decades later. Not a pleasant surprise. The hammer of a final judgement in an individual, belongs to Christ.
Yes. She is a false prophet, and we declare it before the world. God has said of False prophets in Isaiah 9:15: “The Head is the Elder and the honerable person, the prophet who teaches falsehood is the tail.”
When god calls one a “Horse’s Ass” and threatens to cut one off, I think we’re pretty safe to bring down the hammer of Zeus, the Pasta-filled noodley goodness of Flying Spaghetti Monster, or whatever other deity.
When we reach the end of September, and every prophecy as failed, I hope you will see more clearly that I am more prophetic than she.
You predict a married homosexual man passing the sacrament within ten years in an LDS chapel?
Now YOU ARE delusional! Sorry, but will NEVER happen!! Read God’s law on that one!!!
When it happens, I will reply back to your comment and you can deal with the cognitive dissonance.
Here is a letter from a General Authority, Delbert Stapley, to George Romney (Mitt’s father) saying that Black Men would never have civil rights, let alone the priesthood about 14 years before they got the priesthood.
http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/delbert_stapley.pdf
I imagine your message on here will seem about as backward and bigoted in 20 years as this letter does now.
So what? General authorities have spoken their OPINION on plenty of things which have turned out to be incorrect. My parents were in a meeting with Joseph Fielding Smith where they heard him state that man would never go to the moon. Big deal. It’s his opinion and nothing more.
As for the subject in question, that is, a gay married man administering in the ordinances of the priesthood…
Since you seem to put a lot of weight on providing evidence to support the argument, can you site one example in the historical record where God has sanctioned a gay married man (or woman for that matter) performing priesthood ordinances? Furthermore, can you site any evidence where God has condoned gay marriage during any point in time in religiously recorded history? I bring this up because there is a historical pattern of God withholding his priesthood from certain groups of people (the basis for your argument I presume). The blacks being one of them. There is no such evidence, pattern, or situation with God and his laws regarding practicing homosexuals. His stance here is a constant as the northern star. The burden of proof is upon you to show otherwise…
For the record, I do agree with you that Julie Rowe and her visions are spurious and are to be avoided…
>Big deal. It’s his opinion and nothing more.
This shows an irresponsibility. Let me be clear, if Joseph Fielding Smith had said “I, as a man state, we will never go to the moon”. Then you’re correct. If he said “Thus Saith the Lord,one example in the historical record where God has sanctioned a gay married man (or woman for that matter) performing priesthood ordinances?
Well, let’s see; we have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_clergy_in_the_Catholic_Church but that’s Catholic, Shortly after Prop 8 failed and gay marriage was allowed in California, one of the Gay men there who was married blessed the sacrament. He was asked not to do it again by his bishop but that would be one instance in history in the LDS faith.
In the Community of Christ, which is a Mormon faith, having the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith and his literal decedents, has no issue with homosexuality at all: http://affirmation.org/community-of-christ-to-start-marrying-blessing-same-sex-couples/
So there are three examples.
> I bring this up because there is a historical pattern of God withholding his priesthood from certain groups of people (the basis for your argument I presume). The blacks being one of them
You are either dishonest or don’t know your religion as refusing priesthood to blacks, according to the Essay on LDS.com was only the opinion of prophets and not doctrine: https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng
” Following the death of Brigham Young, subsequent Church presidents restricted blacks from receiving the temple endowment or being married in the temple. Over time, Church leaders and members advanced many theories to explain the priesthood and temple restrictions. None of these explanations is accepted today as the official doctrine of the Church.”
So no, there is no doctrine of exclusion of any group of people, only the opinions of men.
Heads I win, tails you lose.
Joseph Fielding Smith was very prophetic, saying, “Man will never go to the moon.” We never went to the moon. That was Richard Nixon’s distraction project, steering us away from Viet Nam, then Watergate, and to complete his pissing contest with Cold War Russian leader Brezhnev. There’s 100’s solid facts that prove it was a huge scam. For me, it’s the shiny gold tin foil on the landing gear pads (bowls), without a spec of “moon dust”, on or in them, although the landing “bowls” supposedly just set the “Eagle” down on the moon, in close proximity to a 10,000 lb. thrust rocket, which rocket made no crater in the dust “as fine as powdered sugar” according to one of Armstrong’s lies. It’s such a joke. Six times going to the moon and back safely, ONLY during Nixon’s time in the white house. Hardy har, har, harrr!
I am fascinated of people who have NDEs. I have read about other people who have had NDEs. Very exciting and interesting stuff. Gay people will never bless and pass the sacrament. Although I enjoy reading about what people say about their NDE, we need to remember they may tend to say things that aren’t true. For example, one boy who had a NDE said he saw angels in the spirit world had wings to enable them to fly. None of them have wings. Does God have wings? We need to remember that the leaders of the Church, as the Prophet, are the ones to always turn to for the truth, not those who have NDEs.
Don’t angels have wings? Can you cite any sources beyond “the Prophet” for angels not having wings? Has Thomas S. Monson said they don’t have wings? Could Joseph have been “Speaking as a man” when he said they didn’t have wings?
Do you have any extraordinary evidence for your extraordinary claim?
You seem so uptight. Chill. Does it really matter?
Yes. Yes it matters. I can’t alter your perception of me being “uptight”, that’s your perception and says more about you than it does me.
But take a look at the number of people harmed by cultish practices, spending tens of thousands of dollars based on failed prophesies and well, if you can still say it doesn’t matter, I don’t think we really have anything to discuss.
Now that we’re in October, I hope you can at least understand that I was far more of a prophet than she, and that I didn’t even suggest you cash in on your 401k to learn that.
Julie never claimed to be a prophet. She is sharing her death experience. Her visions are personalized to her and she claims that she was told to share them. She never said she was a prophet or even suggested that her visions are prophetic.
There are plenty of Non LDS who make claims of visions and warn us of what we should be doing to protect ourselves from evil…put them on your watch list as well
>Julie never claimed to be a prophet.
I’m pretty sure she claimed to have a vision and put forward that vision as “of the future”. That is the definition of prophet in most the world.
>even suggested that her visions are prophetic
I’m pretty sure I cited some quotes where she put them forward as prophetic. Here are some very LDS Talk-sound bites and prophetic quotes by her:
“Beginning at this place on this day, I exhort you to sweep the earth with messages filled with righteousness and truth—messages that are authentic, edifying, and praiseworthy—and literally to sweep the earth as with a flood.” (Church News, August 24, 2104, p. 5)”
“…problems quickly spread across the globe…I saw the Tower of Pisa in Italy blown up…destroyed other prominent buildings, including the Elizabeth Tower in London that houses Big Ben. Soon after, I saw that the Pope was killed, and the Vatican was set on fire and destroyed. Israel seemed to be under siege. I saw that the main Jewish synagogue in Jerusalem was totally blown up and destroyed, as well as the Dome of the Rock and the Wailing Wall. p.94,95”
“There are specific things that I’ve been shown that are part of my mission; we each have a foreordained mission in this life, and part of what was shown to me was that I agreed to this in the councils of heaven, that it would be part of my mortal experience, that I would serve as a witness to testify of many things”
Special mission, called by God, describing specific events including the destruction of monuments.
Now as to “Non-LDS who make claims of visions”; I discuss them too, but no on ExploringMormonism (you see the title of the blog?) See I explore mormonism here. And Julie Rowe, she is that.
I do tackle Warren Jeffs and John W. Taylor and the FLDS on here. And if a Strangite prophesies you can bet I’ll jump on that too, because I’m good about talking on all mormon related topics here.
See how it works?
Julie’s co-host on her podcasts wrote me and refers to her as a “Prophetess”, so apparently Julie doesn’t project herself as anything less than such.
I trust my gut listening to her and her lap dog talk. Selling books, making a buck. It all stinks.
As to the original remarks, I am amazed at the level of pompous surety and dismissal of the reality of miracles. You may be citing Julie Rowe, but I am struck by the choice of attack on miracles–healing and raising of the dead in particular. Are you saying that nothing of the sort has occurred (because you are so certain it never will in the future), and do you therefore deny the miracle healings of the Lord Jesus Christ? I personally have witnessed miracles. There are witnesses to the dead being raised, and in modern times. Miracles do occur, and not just within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, because God is unchanging, and He is a God of miracles. You should be grateful for that, instead of trying to get others to disbelieve. The Book of Mormon says it well:
7 And again I speak unto you who deny the revelations of God, and say that they are done away, that there are no revelations, nor prophecies, nor gifts, nor healing, nor speaking with tongues, and the interpretation of tongues;
8 Behold I say unto you, he that denieth these things knoweth not the gospel of Christ; yea, he has not read the scriptures; if so, he does not understand them.
9 For do we not read that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and in him there is no variableness neither shadow of changing?
10 And now, if ye have imagined up unto yourselves a god who doth vary, and in whom there is shadow of changing, then have ye imagined up unto yourselves a god who is not a God of miracles.
11 But behold, I will show unto you a God of miracles, even the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; and it is that same God who created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are.
12 Behold, he created Adam, and by Adam came the fall of man. And because of the fall of man came Jesus Christ, even the Father and the Son; and because of Jesus Christ came the redemption of man.
I say miracles have not ceased, and regardless of what anyone says who is or is not a false prophet, God does indeed heal, raise from the dead, and can even soften a bitter heart, if one is willing to return to the banquet offered by the Savior. If Julie Rowe is a false prophet, then I hope and I pray for her sake and others, that she leaves behind her delusions of grandeur and false importance, and also repents and gives up all her claims to being called to a work outside the channels established by the Savior Himself in His Church. If not, then she is as besotted with pride and delusion as are the bloggers here an at other sites who openly deny the power of God to even heal and/or raise the dead.
Look, that’s great that you’ve witnessed raising of the dead… where is it in a medical journal? Can you reproduce it? Is the process understandable? If not, it’s magic.
Understandable, reproduce-able, verifiable. That’s what I’m looking for.
Another way to say this is, “Why doesn’t God heal amputees?” In all the medical journals, or Faith-healing TV shows, or all the blessings in all the ward houses, God has never once re-grown an arm. Not even in scripture.
Someone might come back around from a near-death, or even come back to life without magic. That happens to atheists too. But God seems to have limited power in things that don’t happen by chance.
Let me give you an example. On my mission I served in Sweden. Their was an old army colonel who died during the closing prayer in sacrament meeting. Keeled right over. The Bishop leaped over the wall and gave him a blessing. By the time the ambulance arrived the colonel was alive and talking again.
I was sure this was a miracle. I had seen a man brought back to life. I told everyone about it. Problem was, it wasn’t true, even though I saw it with my own eyes.
The Colonel had a heart condition. He was feeling ill. He wore a bottle of Nitroglycerine tablets around his neck specifically because this kind of thing would happen. During the prayer when he dropped off, his wife gave him a tablet. It takes about 5 minutes for the medicine to kick in, about as long as the prayer was.
I learned the facts after I learned to be skeptical. I had to ask details of people who were there. My faith was based on incomplete knowledge. And ya know, with all the claims of magic in all the world, never once has it been magic that was the cause once things were investigated. It’s always incomplete information.
I apologize for not citing the Book of Mormon Quote. It is Mormon 9:7-12.
Add also verse 19:
And if there were miracles wrought then, why has God ceased to be a God of miracles and yet be an unchangeable Being? And behold, I say unto you he changeth not; if so he would cease to be God; and he ceaseth not to be God, and is a God of miracles.