John Dehlin is making waves throughout the blogsphere and LDS circles. The LDS church is going to excommunicate him for being an outspoken LGBT ally, supporter of OW and for not being believing. The trial is complete and for some reason, divine revelation takes three days to send a letter for John. I guess God’s internet is down (Damn Comcast is everywhere these days).
Below is a short list of contemporary individuals still counted as members on the rosters of the church, and their crimes for which they were not excommunicated.
Jodi Arias killed her former boyfriend Travis Alexander on June 4, 2008. He was killed at his home in Mesa, Arizona. He had been shot in the face and stabbed some 27 times, his throat slit from ear to ear. the medical examiner ruled his death a homicide. On November 26, 2006, Arias was baptized into the Church of Jesus-Christ of Latter-day Saints by Travis. Jodi was not excommunicated
Jason Derek Brown shot an armored car driver five times in the head in 2004. He then stole $54,000. He is still one of America’s Most Wanted, but was not excommunicated.
Mark Hacking reported his wife missing on 19 Jul 2004. Her body was found three months later (01 Oct 2004) in a Salt Lake landfill. His trial happened on 18 Apr 2005. He has not been excommunicated
Affinity Fraud: The FBI calculates that there were more than 4,400 victims in 2012 with a net loss of $1.4 billion.
A 63-year-old suspect/Davis County man wanted for an alleged scheme that took tens of millions has his set for an initial court hearing in July in Salt Lake City used the cachet of two Utah institutions — the LDS Church and the Boy Scouts of America — to bilk his victims. He has not yet been excommunicated
Gary Sheets was acquitted on 45 counts of fraud because “he was just a poor manager” and lost the $23 million due to poor investments. Was not excommunicated nor was a trial ever held (Dehlin on the other hand has committed no crime and has a trial)
Allen and Wendell Jacobson reported by Federal Agents to be the single largest fraud ever in the state of Utah. Wendell was excommunicated prior to the investigation. Allen was not excommunicated ever. Wendell oversaw excommunications of members for supporting the ERA back in the 70’s
Quentin L. Cook, sued for civil fraud, made an apostle shortly later. Faithful members created websites to point out the issues. Still not excommunicated
Paul H. Dunn lied to members for personal profit and was never excommunicated
Richard Roswell Lyman committed adultery while an apostle, was excommunicated, and then had all of his blessings restored later.
So one can commit murder, even grisly murder that has hallmarks of the religion involved (Slitting a throat ear to ear) and not be excommunicated. One can defraud the membership of the church of millions and not be excommunicated (to the church’s credit, there were several members who were excommunicated after committing fraud, but it seems to be some of that “Priesthood authority roulette” that John Dehlin talks about. One can even commit a gross ethical error or lie to all the church members and escape excommunication.
But if you say “We should be nice to gay people, and asks the brethren to pray about a question women have; and ya know, I may just like to be part of the religion”; excommunication seems to be justified in members minds. It reminds me of another member who was excommunicated for thought crimes:
Helmuth Huebener – Excommunicated for opposing Hitler
When one can commit real crimes and not be questioned by leaders; but if one commits thought crimes and one is excommunicated or put on trial for excommunication, one really must question if the God that would do such excommunication is actually just.
“Hey, buddy; you stole a bunch of old people’s life savings and murdered a few people… its all good. You’re in heaven; at least you’re not like that guy who said that “Gay people need an ally. Sheesh; what a loser” – God
Update and edits: Church Handbook of instructions:
“Excommunication…may be necessary…Church leaders whose transgressions significantly impair the good name or moral influence of the Church in the community that is aware of the transgression.”
Bundy, a farmer who led an insurrection against the government and Justice Bybee who authorized torture have both been suggested repeatedly that I mention on this post. Both of whom remain in good standing with the church.
Edit #2: LDS bishop who lured teens not excommunicated
Matthew Shepherd‘s murderers were not excommunicated, I guess because beating gays isn’t as wrong as encouraging people to treat them decently.
Along with that Boyd K. Packer get’s an honorable mention for suggesting to missionaries and leaders that “flooring” a homosexual (meaning to hit one) was an acceptable action.
Joseph Smith
Fucked 14 year olds, stole men’s wives, sent out various violent orders to his followers, arrested for lying and deceiving people on financial matters, etc.
Worshiped as prophet of the restoration.
I find it ridiculous the treatment that John and others like him receive. I don’t know why I never thought of it until just now, but your use of the phrase “thought crimes” reminded me.
In Alma 30, Korihor is preaching teachings contrary to the Church. But as Alma 30:7 clearly states, and again a couple verses later, there was no law against a man’s thoughts. He can and should be punished for actual crimes, but his thoughts are untouchable in that regard.
And yet here we are, with a man being excommunicated for his thoughts, while real criminals remain in good standing.
Family counselor=banned for life, straight to hell.
Architects of torture=full protection, apologetics.
Way to go.
This list is really interesting and disturbing! *shudder*
I’ve heard of most of those people’s crimes in the news, but I was wondering how you were able to find out about their current membership status.
War Criminal / Crimes against humanity? No problem, in fact, let’s make Bruce Jessen a bishop (has since resigned because “controversy”)
“Excommunication…may be necessary…Church leaders whose transgressions significantly impair the good name or moral influence of the Church in the community that is aware of the transgression.”
Pretty sure all the apostles have done this when they fight against gay marriage. Most people think of the church as homophobic so it doesn’t even have a good name at all anymore.
I was with Bundy. There was no insurrection. Bundy and I, and hundreds others were standing firm again the theft of cattle by the BLM. The BLM invaded his ranch with swat teams and snipers, with helicopters, ATV’s, and SUV’s under very specious authority. We defended the constitution. We fired not a shot. We pointed no weapons. The weapons were pointed at us. PLEASE, get this story straight. Bundy broke no laws, he simply refused to sign a specious contract that allows BLM to dictate how many cattle he can have on the range, and at what cost. The land does not belong to the BLM. It belongs to the state of Nevada and the County of Clark. We will defend our land, our freedom, and our constitution. Otherwise I am appreciative of what you have written about. But in Bundy’s case you are wrong.
[ Bundy and I, and hundreds others were standing firm against… very specious authority.]
That is more or less the definition of an insurrection. Taking up arms and standing up to authority; typically because that authority is in question.
>We fired not a shot. We pointed no weapons. The weapons were pointed at us.
A political dispute in which both sides are carrying weapons with the intent to use them (and please don’t say that no on on your side intended to use the weapons under any circumstance) is still an insurrection.
> Bundy broke no laws, he simply refused to sign a specious contract that allows BLM to dictate how many cattle he can have on the range, and at what cost.
from Wikipedia: The ongoing dispute began in 1993, when, in protest against changes to grazing rules, Bundy declined to renew his permit for cattle grazing on BLM-administered lands near Bunkerville, Nevada.[2] In 1998, Bundy was prohibited by the United States District Court for the District of Nevada from grazing his cattle on an area of land later called the Bunkerville Allotment.[2] In July 2013, the BLM complaint was supplemented when federal judge Lloyd D. George ordered that Bundy refrain from trespassing on federally administered land in the Gold Butte area of Clark County. BLM officials and law enforcement rangers began a roundup of such livestock on April 5, and an arrest was made the next day.
That looks to me like he broke some laws previously. Unless arrests, in your mind, are “not breaking the law”
Additional insight: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/04/15/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-long-fight-between-cliven-bundy-and-the-federal-government/
>The land does not belong to the BLM. It belongs to the state of Nevada and the County of Clark. We will defend our land, our freedom, and our constitution.
I understand that there is a huge debate about Federal vs State ownership of land. I’m afraid that when the Civil war went in favor of the North; that the federal really did get the power to seize land pretty much willy-nilly. I agree that in a lot of cases the state should have more say. However, I stand by my description of an “insurrection” (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=insurrection%20definition) in that armed individuals tried to out gun a federal agent, which then called in backup; and that what he did… let’s be honest, if he was a black man, would have got him killed without much thought on the part of the officers.
“Jason Derek Brown shot an armored car driver five times in the head in 2004. He then stole $54,000. He is still one of America’s Most Wanted, but was not excommunicated.”
I am confident they’ll hold a court of love for Jason when they get their $5,400.
“Affinity Fraud: The FBI calculates that there were more than 4,400 victims in 2012 with a net loss of $1.4 billion.”
Wait, I thought there were 750,ooo “active” victims in Utah and they had a net loss of about $2.6 billion.
(New visitor, just enjoying your posts)